Should cyclists have the same speed restrictions as motor vehicles?

[alice]

M is that a promise?

[malumbu]

I find it as tedious as most of the rest of you.

[Rockets]

42 minutes ago, malumbu said:

Yes cyclists over a certain age, say 12, should generally not ride on pavements.  Yes cyclists should avoid harming pedestrians.  Yes adults riding on pavements, and adults letting older children ride on pavements are generally in the wrong.

"Should not"/"generally in the wrong". I think the rules say MUST NOT ride on the pavement.....

42 minutes ago, malumbu said:

And you could agree with the national statistics that drivers cause far more harm than cyclists.

Yes we can but the statistics actually show cars involved in more harmful accidents - your language is getting into the "all accidents are the driver's fault territory."

But can you agree that there is an increasing issue of bad cycling, cyclists ignoring road signals, cyclists riding on the pavement and an increase in cyclist accidents?

Edited November 23, 2024 by Rockets

[Rockets]

Malumbu, any response?

[malumbu]

Police will not prosecute children cycling on pavements.  They also take a sensible/proportionate response to others in particular where roads are particularly hazardous.  There is some guidance to police forces I am reliably informed.  If you would like a more draconian approach then write to the Home Secretary.  Probably better use of your time than social media.

[Rockets]

On 23/11/2024 at 20:48, Rockets said:

But can you agree that there is an increasing issue of bad cycling, cyclists ignoring road signals, cyclists riding on the pavement and an increase in cyclist accidents?

And on this?

Just remind us, what does it say in the Highway Code about cycling on pavements?

[malumbu]

I was hearing this dreadful story about a senior gentleman who has just bought an ebike, and is terrifying the locals in a village in Borchestershire, I understand that this is somewhere between Worcestershire and Warwickshire.  Although the bike has a speed limit on it, I understand that the gent was freewheeling and even overtaking cars.  The local speedwatch people are very concerned.  I expect that this will run on and on (no pun intended), there is a local copper living in the village who rightly and wrongly always gets involved in village problems.

I I've also heard  that some farmers in the area aren't wearing helmets when tending to their fields.

And we worry in London about cyclists??

Post script.  I had assumed that at Borchester was the county town it would be Borchestershire, but I've been corrected it is Borsetshire. 

Edited December 2, 2024 by malumbu

[first mate]

The advent of e-bikes surely makes the case for e-bikes adhering to same speed limits as cars. Can't think why there would be an issue with this.

I also like to see all cyclists adhere to park speed limits.

[Rockets]

1 hour ago, malumbu said:

And we worry in London about cyclists??

Well we do. You don't

Still no response to my question I see....what a surprise....

BTW let me answer on part of the question on what the Highway code says about cycling on pavements:

Rule 64

You MUST NOT cycle on a pavement.

Laws HA 1835 sect 72 & R(S)A sect 129

[snowy]

10 hours ago, first mate said:

The advent of e-bikes surely makes the case for e-bikes adhering to same speed limits as cars. Can't think why there would be an issue with this.

I also like to see all cyclists adhere to park speed limits.

Ebikes are already legally limited to 15.5mph at which point the motor cuts out.

If you see someone coasting at 30 then they're riding an illegal e-motorbike. that's not an e-bike its classed as a motorbike and needs the same level of insurance / license/ helmet / adherence with speed limits etc. 

The ability to limit speed on ebikes is a great thing and i can't see why anyone would disagree with the same technology being applied to motor vehicles so they are forced to follow relevant speed limits too. 

Edited December 3, 2024 by snowy

[march46]

Agree, the roads would be a much safer place if the speed of drivers was restricted to the speed limit. 

[Rockets]

Does anyone have any realistic ways of making that happen? Great to say it, much harder to do it. 

Legal e-bikes are limited but that doesn't mean they are safe - accidents happen (with any vehicle) and speed is not always the sole factor for an accident - clearly the faster the speed the higher risk of accident and the bigger the negative impact.

If a vehicle is being driven badly or a bike being ridden badly then the risk is still high.

Interesting article in Cycling Weekly on the illegal e-bike market. 

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/it-seems-to-me-that-no-one-who-buys-one-of-these-electric-bikes-is-planning-to-pedal-very-much

 

[malumbu]

18 hours ago, snowy said:

Ebikes are already legally limited to 15.5mph at which point the motor cuts out.

If you see someone coasting at 30 then they're riding an illegal e-motorbike. that's not an e-bike its classed as a motorbike and needs the same level of insurance / license/ helmet / adherence with speed limits etc. 

The ability to limit speed on ebikes is a great thing and i can't see why anyone would disagree with the same technology being applied to motor vehicles so they are forced to follow relevant speed limits too. 

In deed, I have made the same point multiple times and consider this is far more worthy of discussion than those out to get push bikes.  The last government consulted on increasing the power of (legal) e-bikes, I posted a thread but it got no interest.  Here's the February consultation : https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/smarter-regulation-proposed-changes-to-legislation-for-electrically-assisted-pedal-cycles/smarter-regulation-proposed-changes-to-legislation-for-electrically-assisted-pedal-cycles

I'm not aware of any outcome and expect it has been shelved due to the then impending GE. 

Here's an interesting article criticising the consultation and who on earth had the bright idea, worthy of a proper read.

https://www.cyclingelectric.com/in-depth/500w-e-bike-consultation-update

I think that this is an interesting and more substantial issue than much of the repetitive stuff that goes on this forum.  I particularly consider that this and the last government have (a) dodged the issue of illegal e-bikes and e-scooters (and on this subject I would happily send such vehicles down to the scrap yard if caught on the road - as WMP did a few years ago https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-57912306  

And whilst governments hate telling people what to do I think this is worthy of an information campaign

Here's a link I thought I'd never post

https://www.gbnews.com/lifestyle/cars/electric-bikes-london-safety-sadiq-khan-action

But away from that rabid newsource  it is reported, oddly enough back to the West Midlands not London that Mayor Khan has issued a warning:

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/drivers-two-types-vehicle-london-113218440.html

Finally the issue that really perturbs me is the rise in illegal ebikes for deliveries, particularly food deliveries.

Two ways of addressing this

Government should stop being mates with Deliveroo etc, the last lot were far too friendly, and compel them to employ their riders, provide road legal delivery bikes, ensure that they used lights and were properly trained.  And this would cost you more for your takeaways/deliveries

And we should stop using these companies - I never do.

Look to companies like pedal me, and I believe Yard Sale pizza who seem to do things properly.

Anyone who complains about dodgy delivery/Deliveroo type companies is a hypocrite if they then use them

Oh and talking about toadying up to big business we have the obesity/type 2 diabetes explosion to also consider

So there is plenty to get your teeth into there, teeth?  Get it! I've still got it!!

 

 

 

[first mate]

Hoping it has been shelved too.

My view is that if people can get away with souping up an e-bike they will.  Technically it ceases to be a legal e-bike but it still looks like one at distance, meaning some may be more incentivised to risk speeding without the responsibilities of owning a motorbike, especially when money is short. Applying the same speed limit to all vehicles just makes everything clearer and may be a bit more of a deterrent for some. What would be the downside? 

I agree about food delivery services. Never use them.

[tedfudge]

I was sat at traffic lights on blackfriars bridge last night they take 45 seconds from red to green and in that time I counted 23 cyclists go through the red lights even when people were crossing the road and the green man was showing on lights.

[malumbu]

I went to Tooting Blood Centre tonight and most two wheelers were illegal ebikes delivering takeaways, all bar two had no lights.  I don't normally present my subjective evidence, but hey others like to do so.

Weather was evil and any sensible pedal cyclist would be home preparing themselves to watch Questiontime.

Anyway following the silly consultation the last lot did on ebikes the relevant parliamentary committee came up with the following:

PACTS recommends that the Government proceeds with earlier proposals presented by Transport Minister Baroness Vere, in May 2022, and creates a new low-speed zero-emissions vehicle category. That more considered approach would enable appropriate regulations to be drawn up for the manufacture and use of a range of new vehicles. These may include those which are purely electric powered and low speed, possibly, but not limited, to the form of a pedal cycle providing means for able and less-abled people to travel with or without cargo.

But the last government ignored this and don't know Starmer's views.  I may write to Ellie on the subject.

Edited December 7, 2024 by malumbu

[first mate]

Over the last two days I have experienced more cyclists on non shared pavements.

In both cases not food deliveries. Quite surprisingly one was a very large cargo bike with a totally empty bay. Both cyclists cut across the pavement at speed, presumably to shave a few seconds of their journey. Both were way too close for comfort and seemed to judge they could make the manoeuvre without hitting me.

Edited January 10 by first mate

[Earl Aelfheah]

How does this keep happening to you?

[first mate]

Boring comment Earl and I would ask admin to take a look. Are you saying I am lying Earl and making these events up?

 

[Earl Aelfheah]

No. I'm saying that this does keep happening to you a lot. 

On the accusation of being boring - repeatedly posting anecdotes of how you've observed someone behaving badly on a bicycle isn't exactly enlightening. I could tell you stories daily, of how I've seen people parked illegally, driving whilst on their phone, or breaking the speed limit too, but that would be very, very dull. 

We know that you perceive people as posing a significant threat to others when travelling by bicycle specifically (rather than by any other mode of transport). I would counter that all objective evidence is that they don't. The anecdotes add very little.

Edited January 10 by Earl Aelfheah

[first mate]

Sorry Earl, but having cyclists ride on the pavement, too close for comfort at high speed, on regular basis, is uncomfortable and worrying. I am surprised you feel it is all okay and dismiss it so readily while also, more or less, accusing me of lying.

I am posting it because the frequency of this behaviour is very new. I think that is worth noting. My view is that we need to find a way to educate and or penalise cyclists doing this. It is an accident waiting to happen. Your approach seems to favour waiting. I do not share it.

[Rockets]

2 hours ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

I would counter that all objective evidence is that they don't.

So why then be critical when someone dares to post that they do see evidence that this is happening? Just because you don't want to hear it doesn't mean it's not an issue. Anyone who spends any time in Dulwich will totally understand what a problem this is becoming - unless of course they have a vested interest to turn a blind eye and that's fine - just don't then try to tell people their experience is not accurate.

[Earl Aelfheah]

You've quoted me out of context and misunderstood the point. Read it again.

[first mate]

Some are resistant to reality when it contradicts what they want to believe.

Over the last few months I have been really surprised by how often I have had to step out of the way of a cyclist or been startled by one whizzing by, too close for comfort, every time on a non cycling pavement.

I know that I am not alone in experiencing this. I think it is worth posting as it is a new thing and, without some kind of intervention (I am not quite sure what) I suspect it will happen with greater frequency. As I said, an accident waiting to happen.

This does not detract from valid issues with dangerous driving in cars, but at least there are penalties for that, even if inadequate at times.

As I also said, it is not because I think cyclists are 'bad' but I suspect many are newish to cycling and as someone else commented, view themselves as pedestrians on wheels and entitled to ride on a footpath as they choose. I also suspect many are not aware it is illegal or do not care, as there are currently few risks of a penalty.

[Rockets]

I think because only a tiny few are getting penalised (usually in the City of London with the high profile police campaigns as they try to tackle the problem and educate cyclists -https://www.cityoflondon.police.uk/news/city-of-london/news/2024/april/nearly-one-thousand-cyclists-given-fixed-penalty-notices/).

When I cycle I do marvel at the number of cyclists that jump red lights and I ponder where they are going in such a hurry, why are they so afraid of losing momentum by stopping and is there a kind of tribal issue going on here where they don't want to be the ones that actually stop. There does seem to be a kind of red-light stopper camaraderie building amongst those of us who do stop though with some cyclists I have been waiting with using some very choice words to describe offenders who put both themselves and pedestrians at risk by cycling like idiots.