Victoria trains - small progress

[cle]

In a letter from Southeastern trains having a good moan about the Victoria - Dartford service, I was told the following:

It's a little bit of improvement I suppose - still pathetic:

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I understand you can see benefits in a later service running from London Victoria to Dartford in the evenings, and a service on Sundays.

When we plan our timetable, the Department for Transport decides what services we must supply, including first and last trains to each station, and how long journeys should take. We then use information to decide which services will best suit passengers needs.

Timetables are always a compromise between the various demands of our passengers and what we are practicably able to provide in terms of trains and train crews. Through surveys and monitoring we obtain data used to plan our services and, as far as is possible and practicable, produce a timetable which broadly meets the needs of the majority of our passengers.

I have been in touch with our timetable planning department who have advised that we have plans to introduce an additional train from Victoria at 20.09 to Barnehurst from September and then to Dartford from December, however our current franchise does not require us to run a later service or Sunday services on this route. All the same please be assured your comments have been recorded.

Thank you for taking the time to contact us.

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[lionandmouse]

The lack of direct trains to Peckham Rye in the evenings is infuriating! I know this may sound silly, but I don't go out in Victoria half as much as I used to because I end up having to travel to Blackfriars.

[Renata Hamvas]

Yes Cle,

unfortunately it's DFT that determines what service SouthEastern run.

Renata

[Bic Basher]

We may have seen more progress if the DfT devolved Southeastern's metro rail services to TfL as planned, instead Tory MPs and Kent County Council (maj. Con) put pressure on them not to give it to them based on unsubstantiated fears about lack of paths for services within the county.

[James Barber]

Hi cle,

This is encouraging.

The implication is that the more noise they get about this the more hope of improving this service or after the London Bridge works are finished getting the SLL service back.

From your experience what's the best method of contacting them?

[cle]

I emailed Southeastern through their website. I got no reply, and so flagged it to their Twitter update feed. They were very helpful.

20:09 is still quite lame though. I assume there will be a Victoria-bound journey preceding it also.

Especially with the news that TfL will not be involved (does that make the Victoria - Bellingham/Bromley train dead in the water?) - it will have to be incremental improvements like this.

That Kent side of Victoria is barely ever full of trains either, I'm sure there is plenty of room to expand - perhaps not via Lewisham but via Catford instead.

[Mick Mac]

Thanks cle for pursuing this - the 20:09 train would be very helpful if it materialises.

[cle]

No worries - anybody who fancies voicing an opinion, go here:

http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/about-us/contact-us/

I then wrote to DfT to complain about their minimum specification for the line - here:

https://www.dft.gov.uk/about/contact/form/

Hardly a big petition, but worth dropping both a note, I think. James - one from you as a councillor would be great.

[EMR]

They will add a train to the timetable if there is a business case. The DfT's times are just the minimum they have to provide (as in the first train must be by this time, or the last train must be at least this late).

Therefore, if enough people say they will use the service for it to be viable they will consider it. They do have to make sure it doesn't clash with other empty rolling stock/train crew movements or maintenance possessions though.

[Guest]

This may have been suggested but maybe a petition to Southeastern and DfT would help or if everyone emailed them? I've just emailed both.

[TB2]

The more people tell the DfT that a later / Sunday service on this route is required the better. Also enlist the support of people from places east of Peckham Rye if you can.

[cle]

I imagine those of Nunhead probably like their Victoria link too - especially as they don't have the Overground either, and Blackfriars isn't hugely useful for everywhere.

DfT seems to be the entity to focus on - if they up their specification (largely a hangover from Network Southeast/BR days I bet) - then Southeastern trains will comply...

[tarafitness]

Please let me know if someone starts up a petition.

I generally walk home from Herne Hill as it's a longer and nicer walk... however I do miss the direct Denmark Hill trains after 8pm since the London Bridge service was changed! The 185 bus runs fairly frequently from Vauxhall Bridge Road though and takes less than 40 minutes at times depending on how much later in the evening it is.

[Guest]

the 185 is not an alternative, even if you do live in East Dulwich. If you live in most of Peckham or Nunhead etc then it really isn't.

In lieu of a petition (how do you set up one of those?), email [email protected] and the DfT, I can't remember who I emailed there but maybe this page will help https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-for-transport/about/complaints-procedure#complaints-officers I didn't receive a reply from them so maybe I should try again.

I got a reply from Southeastern though, it's not very exciting but she does say she will pass on my complaint to the operations manager, if that is the case then if enough people email then maybe the message will get through.

Southeastern Customer Relations, PO Box 63428, London, SE1P 5FD

Tel: 0845 000 2222 or 01732 378751

Ref: 605066 / 478130

Dear Miss

Thank you for your web form dated 8 July 2013.

I'm sorry that you're unhappy with the timetabling of services from London Victoria to Peckham Rye. I understand that you've noticed drop in frequency in the evenings and at weekends.

Timetables are planned in line with the specifications we receive from the Department for Transport (DfT). In line with this and the information that we receive from Customer Service Reports, Transport for London and other user groups, we try to decide the number of services and the carriages needed that will best suit our passengers needs.

We realise that the requirements of our passengers do vary, so timetable adjustments are made twice a year. The main adjustments are made in December, with further essential changes made in May or June.

Although, please be assured that I've passed your comments to our operations managers so that they are aware of your desire to a return of more frequent services. I hope that following your feedback, we are able to improve things in future.

Thank you for taking the time to contact us about it.

Yours sincerely

Laura Kuwertz

Customer Relations Officer

Southeastern

[cle]

So - I got my reply from DfT who seem to think it is Southeastern's responsibility to bring improvements, even though they are the ones specifying the service so lowly.

Apparently due to the balls up on the West Coast franchise, the government pushed the Southeastern renewal from 2014 to 2018, so it doesn't look like much innovation or improvement will be coming soon. TfL have also ditched their plans to take on certain Southeastern suburban routes due to Kent County Council intervening (!) - so I doubt we'll see too much change for a while.

Here it is - pointless:

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Thank you for your email of 02 July 2013 regarding Southeastern services to and from London Victoria; I have been asked to respond.

As you are aware, the Franchise Agreement contains a Service Level Commitment, which states the minimum service provision of the train operator. If Southeastern wish to run more services, from and to Victoria than is stated on a commercial basis then that is a decision for the train operator, but they cannot run fewer services than the stated commitment.

If the train operator believes that the demand exists for more services than are stipulated by the Service Level Commitment and they have the rolling stock, staff availability and track access, there is nothing to stop them from running more services.

The Government believes that operators are far better placed than central Government to react to the demands of their customers in the creation of train services and timetables and has committed to taking a less prescriptive approach to rail franchising.

When a new Franchise competition is opened, one of the key elements is a public consultation to help decide the new service requirements of the Franchise ? and, as the Secretary of State said when announcing the new Franchising Programme, ?future competitions will also place passengers in the driving seat by ensuring that their views ?? are taken into account? - so I would ask you to look out for that when the competition for the new Franchise for Southeastern is opened to ensure that your views regarding this issue are included.

Yours sincerely,

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[cle]

An update:

http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/news/latest-news/southeastern-consults-on-changes-to-timetable-in-december-2014/

and a PDF at the bottom of that.

But in short:

- Later Dartford via DH/PR trains, Mon-Sat

- No mention of Sunday just yet.

- Victoria to Gillingham trains (some of which stop at DH in morning peak, i.e. the wonderfully clean and quiet 08:30) to stop off-peak hourly too, giving three trains each hour to DH.

Will become Dover trains, so a direct train from the area out to Bromley, Faversham, Canterbury and Dover - might be useful?

[lane lover]

Some good progress, but still a year away.

[werdna101]

It implies that Sunday services are still to be decided so an increase may come. Or is it worthwhile submitting a comment to the consultation to lobby for this?

Also - what happens once the London Bridge works are finished? Does the timetable go back to how it is now? Or will there be another round of consultation?

[James Barber]

To encourage these changes tell the consultation manager : [email protected]

[cle]

Have done so, including requesting trains until midnight from Victoria (Mon-Sat) rather than an incremental lateness, and a decent service on Sunday too.

[werdna101]

I have also written with a similar comment

[Bic Basher]

I'd also consider adding that extra train to call at Peckham Rye, however that may be enough for the Kent commuter groups to campaign against it in the same way the proposals for Kent Coast services to call at DH and PR were scrapped before.

[DavidPeckham]

Excellent suggestion, thanks James, have emailed Mike Asa a resident and local business owner extolling the virtues of a Victoria connection in addition to London Bridge, please let me know if this thread leads anywhere, a petition or consultation emerges, or anything else I could do to help!

Cheers