stern ticking off for dulwich wild foodies...

[bawdy-nan]

http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2013/06/21/where-foraging%E2%80%99s-concerned-there%E2%80%99s-no-such-thing-as-a-free-lunch/

[fl0wer]

well spotted, bawdy-nan.

The writer doesn't name the deli, I suppose for the newspaper's 'legal reasons'.

A lovely hardy herb garden plant called Garlic Chives is really worth growing. It flowers late in the summer.

http://www.floralencounters.com/graphics/Seeds/garlic_chives_whole.jpg

Tastes milder than wild or clove garlic and its perennial leaves are perfect for adding to salads, omelettes, hummus etc.

[bawdy-nan]

I asked the author if he'd approached the deli in question (I know which it is as I walked past the sign in may thinking it was a bit cheeky to sell it) but he said he'd only heard about it and not seen evidence. Mild twitter searching led me to their own proud posting about their wares, with pic.

I can't imagine they'd have sold or advertised it in the way they did if they'd known it was "theft". Probably would have been helpful for someone to have talked to them about it.

[edhistory]

The reference to "ancient woodland" is odd.

John K

[spark67]

I have seen a lot of people in the mornings picking Elderflowers along surrey canal walk, peckham, as I cycle through early in the morning. It seems the new craze. It's gone from not seeing anyone to seeing large groups snapping and branches and breaking of the flowers willy nilly. When a fad like this catches on and people do it in large numbers it can cause a lot of ecological damage to local wildlife, as well as damaging the plants themselves, those flowers are food for pollinating insects ( remember the bee and butterfly population is in sharp decline ) and also the berries are an important source of food for birds and other wild life in the winter. Us humans have a lot of food at hand here in the uk, and do not need to pillage the countryside as well. I can understand people wanting to try their hand at foraging after all the press it has been getting and getting a feel of being connected with nature, but when it becomes a national fad it can do more harm then good.

[spark67]

Ps I second the recommendation for garlic chives, I have grown them for the past couple of years in a window box in the back garden and it has a wonderful flavour, and as an added bonus produces beautiful flowers in the late summer :)

[Sue]

bawdy-nan Wrote:

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>

> I can't imagine they'd have sold or advertised it

> in the way they did if they'd known it was

> "theft". Probably would have been helpful for

> someone to have talked to them about it.

XXXXXX

It's not too late?

I'm appalled by the contents of that article. How extremely selfish can people be? Even if it wasn't a nature reserve, don't they think twice before wrecking an area of wild plants?

[fl0wer]

OK, let's get problem solving.

Would be heartbroken if Woods had to be locked, security cameras installed, and footpaths closed to prevent this kind of pillage.

A new & welcome enthusiasm has been swept in by TV programmes like Springwatch, and Fergly-Wergly, and now it needs to promote better attitudes. Learning to respect the natural world is crucial for people to live and work more ethically, and for coming generations.

The National Curriculum has been allowed to squeeze this topic out to the edges. High % of people have grown up blind to the harm being done all around in industrialised farming and local council green space work. When everywhere we see flail machines, strimmers and chainsaws smashing the verges & hedgerows all at wrong times of year and for the wrong reasons, how is that different to spoiling the canalside eldertrees by wrenching off all the flowers?

Another problem about foraging is set to worsen in the recession.

It's likely wild garlic plants were taken by people thinking 'money' regularly supplying restaurants and posh greengrocers.

Fungi are getting picked from Epping Forest more than ever before,

and plenty of wild-caught venison enters the moonlight economy as well. A bit of lucrative poaching is just as logical to some people as it ever was, but there'll be new desperation and ruthlessness when folk have to tighten their belts.

I wish that the Sydenham Woods Warden didn't have to worry about the wild garlic and other flora & fauna in his care. It feels like a greedy, hurtful crime to take these things here, in the middle of a great urban environment, where only small pockets of wildlife keep hold.

But all over SW England the garlic grows alongside rivers by the acre, where HF-W is living and writing from. So one perspective on this: is the general abundance or otherwise of a species part of the debate?

[uncleglen]

I see he mentions fungi- that's interesting since some years ago I went of a 'fungus foray' which had been organised by the London Wildlife Trust in Sydenham Hill Wood and we were encourage to pick the stuff and eat it! Presumably they don't do this anymore

[Cassius]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> I see he mentions fungi- that's interesting since

> some years ago I went of a 'fungus foray' which

> had been organised by the London Wildlife Trust in

> Sydenham Hill Wood and we were encourage to pick

> the stuff and eat it! Presumably they don't do

> this anymore

I used to volunteer for LWT and although they did organise autumn fungus forays they never in my memory encouraged people to pick mushrooms for food. The leader of the walk would pick an example of the better known mushrooms and hand them around (and yes even nibble if known to be safe) - however it was always always stressed that picking the mushrooms was NOT on the agenda.

[fl0wer]

If anyone is interested there was a good comment posted here http://discussion.guardian.co.uk/comment-permalink/22367623 a few months ago.

Sorry - that link does not take you to the exact bit - here's the salient paragraph:

"People need to know that there might be specific rules or by-laws against picking wildflowers in publically accessible woods. In other words if people are seen collecting Ramsons by those who manage the woodland, they could get in trouble for breaching rules or by-laws....In many publically accessible woods picking wildflowers is strictly forbidden."

So, would it be better if Wild Garlic was grown in kitchen gardens? Its seeds could be collected, but getting colonies to increase in size takes many decades, hence their association with old woodland.

Taking the green top part off bulbs reduces strength for next year, the one big leaf needs to harness sunlight and build up for the flower phase. Hence the 'design is wrong' for cutting regularly.

[henryb]

We planted some bulbs the autumn before last in our garden. We didn't pick last summer but there were lots of leaves and flowers for picking this year so have taken about half. See how it goes next year.

[david_carnell]

edhistory Wrote:

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> The reference to "ancient woodland" is odd.

>

> John K

Why? Is it not some of the last remaining remnants of the Great North Wood?

[edhistory]

It's certainly in the same location as the Great North Wood, but I can't identify any part of Sydenham Wood that qualifies as "ancient woodland".

I hope I'm proved wrong.

Technical details here:

http://www.gis.naturalengland.org.uk/pubs/gis/tech_aw.htm

John K

.

[edw]

I generally agree with the article about not foraging important woodland species, but not sure about this comparison: "It?s no more acceptable than grabbing a duck from your local park and turning it into confit de canard."

I'm not sure there's anything wrong with (humanely) catching and eating a wild mallard, a species which is not remotely endangered. It's not illegal as far as I know. The more exotic types of duck that could be seen to "belong" to a park are definitely off the menu, though.

[fl0wer]

Don't anyone bother with a stringy old mallard. Leave'em be. They are part of lakeside life cycles and we do have plenty of other places to get our food.

Pigeons and rabbits, people would be welcome to forage those everywhere across the country and town, but cognescenti wait for the right moment, i.e. respectful.

The best time to get a pigeon is just a day before it flies the nest (while its still called a squab) and the time for rabbits is when they are quite young and not very fast.

I wouldn't be wanting to eat them because of the amount of agrichemical trash in their diets.

They are traditionally domestic animals though, popularised through capacity to breed prolifically and docile enough to accept humans raising them for the pot.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I'm off to grab a heron.

[david_carnell]

Tastes a lot like badger.

[Jeremy]

Ahh, roast saddle of badger with a swan egg hollandaise... takes me back...

[stacey-lyn]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> Ahh, roast saddle of badger with a swan egg

> hollandaise... takes me back...

to? Le Moulin?

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

The best time to get a pigeon is just a day before it flies the nest (while its still called a squab) and the time for rabbits is when they are quite young and not very fast.

Not very sporting, what?

[david_carnell]

It is if you're on foot and running after the bugger.

[Guest]

Wow, I had no idea that foraging was such a no no -I haven't done much besides blackberrying and the odd bottle of sloe gin, which I hope are more acceptable.

I'm not up for duck-napping though.

[QueenMab]

I think this is a good and timely article. Lots of people seem to think it's OK to pick wild plants for food, but it's not. Often it is done without any regard for sustainable growth or awareness of the impact it might have on an ecosystem. When you think about the sheer volume of people living around the Sydenham Hill wood area, it would very quickly lose a lot of its diverse and precious plant life if anyone could just go in and pick whatever they fancied.

[Burbage]

edhistory Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It's certainly in the same location as the Great

> North Wood, but I can't identify any part of

> Sydenham Wood that qualifies as "ancient

> woodland".

>

> I hope I'm proved wrong.

If you follow the instructions in the link you gave, both Dulwich Woods and Sydenham Hill Wood get a nice gold-coloured border on the map when Ancient Woodland is ticked (zoom in to the right bit of the map, tick 'Habitats and Species' on the left, then 'Habitats' then 'Woodland' then 'Ancient Woodland'). Which strongly suggests that the woods in question aren't just 'ancient woodland' in the literal and obvious sense, but also in the bureaucratic sense.