20mph for motor vehicles in Southwark

[malumbu]

To continue on the theme a better article:

Speeding offences are usually enforced by the Met Police but the council said officers tend to concentrate on main roads and dual carriageways. The authority announced it was stepping in after revealing most of the complaints it receives are about drivers speeding on quieter residential streets.

The council said the number of vehicles travelling over 25mph on the roads has fallen from 13per cent to 6.6pc on the roads since the introduction of the scheme.

A Wandsworth Council spokesperson said, “We began this trial as part of our efforts to support the police and TfL with their speed enforcement work, and as our contribution to wider London efforts on Vision Zero.

“Since the start of the trial we have seen a 1mph reduction in speeds and the number of vehicles travelling over 25mph dropping from 13pc to 6.6pc on the trial roads and up until this point have notified motorists who have been found to have breached the speed limit with a warning letter but have not issued any fines.

“The Department for Transport has taken the decision to restrict access to details of registered vehicle keepers meaning we are now unable to contact drivers who are found to have been speeding. Naturally, we are disappointed with this decision and are having ongoing conversations with the Department for Transport regarding the future of the trial.

“We remain committed as a council to doing all that we can to reduce the danger posed by speeding vehicles on our roads and hope that the Department for Transport recognises and supports our commitment to ensuring safety on our roads.”

 

I've just been having a laugh at the DfT motorists policy.  Only it is not funny.  This is all about trying to win a few more votes by pandering to the motorists' lobby and back tracking on commitments from the last 13 years.  Even you would agree Rocks.  Fortunately no great bounce for those twonks in power.

[Spartacus]

Mal 

Imagine if they were allowed to continue, every council officers eyes alk over the country would light up.as they saw, not a a scheme to reduce speeding, but a massive cash grab by simply putting cameras on every road. 

Unfortunately, whilst preventing speeding is a good thing, giving that power to councils and allowing them to keep the fines isn't.

[malumbu]

It's populist nonsense.  Why are you condoning breaking the law?  Why are you an apologist for entitled motorists?  Traffic calming and good citizenship doesn't work.  Better enforcement does.  Sunak currently denying that he is not backtracking.  All you are doing is supporting that

To add have you seen how much people are fined by the police for speeding? - draconian or what, I bet it works though......

I expect a fixed price penalty by a local authority without points is preferable for many

[alex_b]

16 hours ago, Spartacus said:

Mal 

Imagine if they were allowed to continue, every council officers eyes alk over the country would light up.as they saw, not a a scheme to reduce speeding, but a massive cash grab by simply putting cameras on every road. 

Unfortunately, whilst preventing speeding is a good thing, giving that power to councils and allowing them to keep the fines isn't.

If you don’t speed you can’t get fined. Why is enforcing the law for motorists considered unjust? 

[Spartacus]

5 hours ago, alex_b said:

If you don’t speed you can’t get fined. Why is enforcing the law for motorists considered unjust? 

I didn't say it was unjust, I just said it's not something I would want to be in the hands of a council. 

[malumbu]

Why not?  Surely they know their roads well.  And unlike the police where the money goes into a central pot it could be ring fenced to do something good.  Issue here is there are half a dozen of you who complain about most things the council do.  At least one of you can never say a good thing, even when you loosely agree, the response is comes with a caveat (and for clarity that is not you Spartacus).  If you are so against the way things are run what is there a better way?  Hitler, Stalin, Mao had alternative models, but I doubt if you would like to live under those regimes.  Bhutan is a very happy kingdom, again not sure most would like to move to that sort of society.  Putting every decision out to a referendum would be daft. 

When I first started to discuss some of these issues on the ED section of the forum (we'd had many a big picture debate on the Lounge in the old days) I asked if Southwark were so bad why people didn't move to the outer boroughs where "they didn't agree with all this woke nonsense"

 

[Spartacus]

The council are not the keepers of the law 

What else would you want them to take on Mal ? Capturing robbers? Telling people their loved ones have died ? Responding to public order offences ? 

Absolutely not, don't diminish the powers of the police by asking the council to do it, who will reduce the service when times are tough ! 

The council are not the police 

[Rockets]

BBC News - Wales 20mph speed limit adviser to lead review
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-67940087

 

Ha ha, more local authorities marking their own homework....its ludicrous they think this is acceptable....

[malumbu]

Silly exercise, what a waste of time, just get used to 20 mph and accept the benefits.  Why are you joining in this "end the war on motorists" nonsense.  In fact it was almost as if you started this desperation call from PM Sunak.  

[Rockets]

Anyone else see on the BBC London News tonight that London is officially the slowest city in the world……for the second year running…..with Sadiq and council rollouts of 20mph being cited as one of the main causes?

33 minutes ago, malumbu said:

Silly exercise, what a waste of time, just get used to 20 mph and accept the benefits.  Why are you joining in this "end the war on motorists" nonsense.  In fact it was almost as if you started this desperation call from PM Sunak.  

I am not…I am flagging the nonsnese of traffic planners “keeping everything in-house”….we’ve seen it all before so many times….Dr Aldred et al being awarded £1.5m to research the effectiveness of LTNs….which she lobbied for and the funding for her research provided by the very authorities who rolled the LTNs out…they love a closed shop!

[Nigello]

Bus lanes don’t all need to be 24/7. So much congestion and therefore pollution (and wasted money and time) is caused by blanket bans. It seems to me that those who impose the rules like to be seen as uncompromising rather than pragmatic in a mistaken belief that this will get the results they want. Opening up some lanes more of the time would help get the city moving. 

[Spartacus]

Whilst not fully "20mph" TfL have a new tool that links road accidents to deprived areas 

BBC News - Road accidents still linked to deprivation, TfL tool shows
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67936442

my personal conclusion from the statement in it "A related report found the most at-risk group was young male motorcyclists in the poorest parts of the capital." is that it possibly relates to the increase in delivery services where there is a potential higher usage in deprived areas. 

Scary part of the article is the line at the end 

QUOTE

Rezina Chowdhury from Lambeth Council said: "Road danger is a social justice issue, and we are past the point where it's enough to just ask motorists to slow down or pedestrians to look both ways when crossing a road. 

It is about making sure in the future streets are designed with road safety built in, making them more equal and less dominated by motor traffic."

UNQUOTE 

I can see the TfL report being used as yet another stick to beat motorists with...

[snowy]

11 hours ago, Rockets said:

Anyone else see on the BBC London News tonight that London is officially the slowest city in the world……for the second year running…..with Sadiq and council rollouts of 20mph being cited as one of the main 

Is it that time of year again when you fall for a TomTom press release? As you were told last year, London isnt the slowest city in the world. TomTom exclude entire continents from their survey which excludes some of the largest and most traffic congested cities in the world. 

The average speed in inner London has been approximately 10mph for years. It's nothing to do with 20mph limits or 24/7 bus lanes. That evidence is included in the TomTom report data.

Starting to think you would believe that the word gullible is being removed from the dictionary if you were told by a private company with a vested interest in selling a product that aims to avoid traffic. 

[Rockets]

Let me correct you I didn't fall for anything - I was merely asking whether anyone saw the quite lengthy section that the BBC News ran on it - perhaps they are gullible too!!! 😉 

Some on here always love a knee-jerk Pavlovian reaction anytime someone posts something you don't agree with and love to throw in a bit of finger-pointing!

 

I am presuming you did not see it? Here's the link to it starts at 3.24 in.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001v6pw/bbc-london-late-news-10012024

 

37 minutes and 20 seconds to do a 10km journey does seem quite long does it not and that is a one minute increase since last year? And they only exclude one continent from the survey it covers 387 cities across 55 countries on 6 continents.  

 

Interesting that Sadiq's spokesperson claims the report is misleading yet then goes on to say that TFL's data shows no lengthening of journeys on their roads since 2019 (interesting that they selected that date given traffic levels are still lower on many roads post-pandemic and travel pattern have changed) but, correct me if I am wrong TFL doesn't run all of the roads in London does it - it only controls 5% of them? If so, maybe Sadiq's spokesperson is trying to mislead people!

Edited January 11 by Rockets

[snowy]

[Spartacus]

15 minutes ago, snowy said:

Thanks Snowy 

Can you put a reference to the source of this table as I can't work out if its the Tom Tom report or a TfL one ? 

[malumbu]

It's dynamic, congestion reduces demand, free flowing traffic increases demand.  Not a perfect equation due to entrenched behaviour.  And highly subjective as every year I've been to London (excluding COVID) has been reported as the worst on record, but in reality it is loosely the same varying up and down.   

[Rockets]

Snowy, what point are you trying to make with that table as all it shows is that traffic got faster during lockdown? The 2021 figures you have shared only go to March of that year and we were still in a lockdown period then - what is really interesting is what happened after lockdown lifted and after the LTNs and new infrastructure went in.

Tom Tom is claiming an average speed in rush hour of 8.6mph in London - doesn't compare too well with the TFL figures you quote.

Also, I am right that Sadiq's office is being a little liberal with the truth by quoting TFL figures when Tom Tom's are from all London roads not just the TFL ones? Am I correct in thinking that the TFL roads road around here are the A205 and Lordship Lane etc?