ULEZ expansion ruled lawful by High Court

[Earl Aelfheah]

So what is your actual point? Do you think the ULEZ hasn't been successful, or are you just unhappy that a short press release from an external relations department has chosen to put the most positive spin it can on what are by any measure, significant improvements in air quality since 2019? If your issue is with the way external relations departments write press releases, we're probably all with you, but this isn't really an issue with the ULEZ, which is clearly a success story.

Edited March 17 by Earl Aelfheah

[Rockets]

I am not sure what to believe on ULEZ expansion I am afraid as when I read the press release that hails ULEX as a success and see the wilful manipulation of the narrative I question what else might be being skewed by the Mayor's office. Can we believe anything in the press release if that really basic issue has been manipulated so much?

Does it not make you question the legitimacy of anything in the release? Why on earth did they think they could get away with that?

[Earl Aelfheah]

2 minutes ago, Rockets said:

I am not sure what to believe on ULEZ expansion

It's always the innuendo. have the power of your convictions. Do you believe that ULEZ has improved air quality, or not? Would you reverse it, or are you broadly supportive of it? You have spoken about it a lot (and in terms most would consider to be critical) for someone who claims not to have a position. 

[malumbu]

As in my earlier post I can't be assed to read the report but with a reduction of older polluting vehicles this has to be good for those living on the South Circular as this was formerly a boundary road.  I couldn't give a fig about the outer boroughs, were they to introduce 20mph on all residential roads and provide more infrastructure for cycling I may think differently.

[Rockets]

9 minutes ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

It's always the innuendo. have the power of your convictions. Do you believe that ULEZ has improved air quality, or not? Would you reverse it, or are you broadly supportive of it? You have spoken about it a lot (and in terms most would consider to be critical) for someone who claims not to have a position. 

I am hoping it has improved air quality but if the Mayor feels the need to mislead people in his press release then I do wonder whether it is doing what he says it is and how much of the "good news" is actually spin to help him justify his decision to go ahead with expansion. If it hasn't actually done anything to improve air quality then it plays into the hands of those who say this was just another revenue generating exercise at the expense of drivers and I have always been concerned that the Mayor and local authorities are happy to greenwash revenue-generation exercises and that one day it could actually do massive harm to the climate change challenge if it was all exposed as a falsehood and did nothing to positively impact the very reason to implement it.

What do you think? Are you concerned that the Mayor feels the need to mislead - does that fill you with confidence?

[Earl Aelfheah]

9 minutes ago, Rockets said:

If it hasn't actually done anything to improve air quality then it plays into the hands of those who say this was just another revenue generating exercise

Who would that be. Not you, of course.

9 minutes ago, Rockets said:

What do you think? Are you concerned that the Mayor feels the need to mislead - does that fill you with confidence?

I don't think the press release is misleading. You don't seem to understand press releases, or external relation departments. They've literally published a full report with it, with lot's of detail. It is absolutely clear from the data that it's had a positive impact on air quality.

Honestly, I do wish you would be a bit braver. It's pretty clear you're opposed to it.

Edited March 17 by Earl Aelfheah

[Rockets]

The press release is massively misleading - designed to create positive headlines and distract the dis-tractable....

26 minutes ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

You don't seem to understand press releases, or external relation departments.

On what basis exactly......I am laughing heartily at this assertion....;-)

[malumbu]

It has improved air quality, it's ludicrous to say otherwise.  The three phases of ULEZ have reduced the number of, and mileage of, older polluting cars.  Unless they travel around London, and in this case it is the home counties' problem, then there is nowhere for older more polluting cars to go without paying, unless they are a minority of those obsessed with short journeys that miss out any of the numerous ULEZ cameras.  Can you not just agree that in principle it is a good concept. 

[Earl Aelfheah]

7 minutes ago, Rockets said:

The press release is massively misleading - designed to create positive headlines and distract the dis-tractable....

On what basis exactly......I am laughing heartily at this assertion....;-)

I mean you could deflect. But why not answer the question. What are your views on ULEZ.

Edited March 17 by Earl Aelfheah

[Rockets]

Of course it is a good concept - but why is the Mayor feeling he has to put out misleading press releases to valid it?

[Earl Aelfheah]

1 minute ago, Rockets said:

Of course it is a good concept

A good concept, or an effective intervention?

Edited March 17 by Earl Aelfheah

[malumbu]

2 minutes ago, Rockets said:

Of course it is a good concept - but why is the Mayor feeling he has to put out misleading press releases to valid it?

Surely you are not that naive, most politicians put a positive spin when speaking in the public.  How have you stopped the small boats?  This government has a record investment in surveillance of the English Chanel.  But has it stopped the small boats?  So ULEZ is good for London.  That will do me.

[Earl Aelfheah]

7 minutes ago, Rockets said:

why is the Mayor feeling he has to put out misleading press releases to valid it?

I don't agree it's misleading. It's exactly what I would expect from a public relations / press office - short and punchy (lacking nuance), and spun from the most positive angle. It is not untrue however and it is accompanied with a lot of detail. And fundamentally it is a very positive picture.

Edited March 17 by Earl Aelfheah

[Rockets]

Adding this line:

1. Air quality has improved at 99% of air quality monitoring sites across London since 2019, and London’s air quality is improving at a faster rate than the rest of England [4, 5]

...to a press release extolling "evidence" of the positive results of ULEZ expansion one year one when the very report you are referring to says that those very points are not attributable to ULEZ is the very definition of misleading...

Organisations usually have stringent and robust legal review of outgoing press releases and I am amazed this was allowed to be sent out.

[malumbu]

Good heavens, it's been relatively quiet on this forum but since you have started posting again it's gone crazy,  From a quick tally today across three threads you have posted 18 times

Exceeded by FM - around 24 and Earl 28, although much of this was a ding dong between the two.

I'm a mere 8, one more than Cycle Monkey and twice that of Snowy.

I doubt if the debate has moved on one jot, and what else does it say?  Me included there are other things going on in life, not only on the geopolitical front but, spoiler alert, a very close University Challenge tonight.

 

[Rockets]

I have a lot of catching up to do and am clearly the catalyst for lively debate, although viewing from a far during my suspension you were all doing fine without me! 😉

[Earl Aelfheah]

18 hours ago, Rockets said:

Adding this line:

1. Air quality has improved at 99% of air quality monitoring sites across London since 2019, and London’s air quality is improving at a faster rate than the rest of England [4, 5]

...to a press release extolling "evidence" of the positive results of ULEZ expansion one year one when the very report you are referring to says that those very points are not attributable to ULEZ is the very definition of misleading...

Organisations usually have stringent and robust legal review of outgoing press releases and I am amazed this was allowed to be sent out.

What is it you think is untrue in the above? The improvement in air quality is a fact. The report makes clear that these improvements have been accelerated by ULEZ. What are you talking about with 'legal reviews'? You think there is something illegal about a summary press release, linked to a detailed report? I think you're just looking for ways to cast doubt on the success of ULEZ using your usual tactics of innuendo and conspiracy - because fundamentally it's been successful, and even you are not brazen enough to say it hasn't been outright.

Edited March 18 by Earl Aelfheah

[Rockets]

18 minutes ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

What is it you think is untrue in the above?

That is has anything to do with ULEZ expansion - so why is it in a press release extolling the virtues of ULEX expansion.

20 minutes ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

The report makes clear that these improvements have been accelerated by ULEZ.

But the press release does not does it - therein lies the issue - the press release is not a reflection of fact. That bullet has no place being there - it has nothing to do with the ULEZ expansion and the report to which the press release is taken makes that very clear.

 

 

 

21 minutes ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

What are you talking about with 'legal reviews'? You think there is something illegal about a summary press release, linked to a detailed report?

Before an organisation the size of the Mayor's office puts out an email there will be an internal reviews process (which will include the Mayor's office). It will also include their legal department who will, usually, challenge the claims made in said press release to ensure they pass the threshold for the claim to be made in the release - it's the due diligence process to protect the organisation from making claims that are not true or cannot be substantiated.

 

The press release is misleading and it doesn't matter if the detail is in the report. The press release bullet 4 is making a claim that is incorrect has nothing to do with ULEZ expansion - it has no business being on the press release and is incredibly misleading.

The press release is making a claim that is not true.

[Earl Aelfheah]

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