Speed limit East Dulwich Grove

[gardenstudio]

My understanding is that the speed limit along all sections of East Dulwich Grove, and at all times, is 20 mph.   Could anyone clarify whether I am right about this?   I drive along there regularly, sticking to 20 mph, but at off peak times other drivers constantly tailgate me, flash their lights at me, blast their horns at me and frequently dangerously overtake me with no proper view of oncoming traffic, and it’s very scary and distracting.  Thanks in advance for any advice.

[Spartacus]

This happens down other roads like Barry Road too.

A handful of drivers are frustrated by being limited to 20mph and as a result you see the sort of incidents you describe above. 

It's similar to the mentality that if you are doing 70 in the fast lane on a motorway overtaking another car, there will always be one (or more) drivers pushing their luck and flash you ro move over whilst they thunder past above the speed limit.

Thankfully it's not all drivers and the majority are sensible.

[Sally Eva]

You are right. All LTRN and residential roads in Southwark are (theoretically) 20mph.

[malumbu]

Most inner boroughs are 20 mpjh, as I expect are many urban areas across the UK.  France has gone one better with 30 kmh, slightly less, in many of their towns.  IT would be good if the government mandate 29 mph, have publicity for this, recommend average speed cameras and ideally have some sort of retest/refresh programme and there will be drivers on the road who passed their test 70 years ago and will keep on driving until they can no longer get a doctor's certificate. 

[apod]

Yes it is 20mph and thank you for sticking with the speed limit. I live on this road and it is frustrating to see that maybe 2 drivers out of 10 are following the speed limit on this road, unless they stuck in traffic. The night time is even worse with cars speeding through it. Since the closure of the adjacent roads the traffic and the noise have increased drastically. Where we can't help the traffic, the noise would reduce if drivers stick with 20mph.

[Bic Basher]

All Southwark managed streets are 20mph except for TfL managed roads in the borough, these include Dulwich Common, Lordship Lane east of Melford Road, Old Kent Road, New Kent Road, Camberwell New Road, Camberwell Church Street, Peckham Road, Peckham High Street and Queen's Road which are 30mph.

 

 

[first mate]

I get incredibly frustrated with drivers that don't or won't adhere to 20 mph or other speed limits. No excuse for it. I grant that it takes a bit more concentration when going up or down steep hills but really not so much to ask.

[CPR Dave]

They are probably just trying to save the environment., 20mph creates more emissions than 30 mph and is killing people and their lungs,

[malumbu]

Bollox, 20mph if adhered to leads to smoother driving and reduced congestion.  Half the problem is caused by the typical (and I mean typical) driver who races to the speed bumps, bangs on the anchors (leading to brake particulate emission), accelerates again (more nitrogen oxides) as well as 10 - 20 percent more fuel and CO2.  Probably the biggest indicator that many drivers don't give a toss, whatever they may say. I've done the training, got the badge, worked with vehicle engineers etc etc.

Not of course mentioning the massive reduction in deaths and seriously injured.

Quicker the two major political parties push for average speed cameras the better.

 

[vladi]

3 hours ago, malumbu said:

Bollox, 20mph if adhered to leads to smoother driving and reduced congestion.  Half the problem is caused by the typical (and I mean typical) driver who races to the speed bumps, bangs on the anchors (leading to brake particulate emission), accelerates again (more nitrogen oxides) as well as 10 - 20 percent more fuel and CO2. 

 

Absolutely true.

[CPR Dave]

Utter nonsense as it goes. Just like everything else Malumbu trolls on about on here. Would be better if they stuck to their own local forum where they live, although unfortunately there are no LTNs, CPZs, or 20 mph speed limits in Bromley.

[redpost]

5 hours ago, CPR Dave said:

Utter nonsense as it goes. Just like everything else Malumbu trolls on about on here. Would be better if they stuck to their own local forum where they live, although unfortunately there are no LTNs, CPZs, or 20 mph speed limits in Bromley.

It's very basic physics:

* Wind resistance is exponential to speed of vehicle

* F=MA higher the acceleration, more force (=fuel/pollution) needed

* Energy lost through braking greater at higher speeds, although EV/hybrid can recover a lot through regenerative braking

The engine may be slightly more efficient at higher speeds, this is trivial compared to the energy expended on the 3 above

As you know best though, please enlighten the world on dark matter, superstring theory and grand unification of the electrostatic and gravitational forces. There's a nobel waiting for you.

[smashaneggonu]

Seems like we got ourselves an evolutionary physicist here

 

[MarySQ]

Anyway safety of you and others on the road is paramount. It's important to focus on your driving, follow the speed limit, and not be influenced by aggressive behavior from other drivers. But sometimes it's really hard. 

[Jim1234]

Ban (almost) all cars! 

[DuncanW]

I've no idea or interest in where Malumbu lives, but fwiw I can assure you there are CPZs and LTNs in Bromley.

 

 

[mr.chicken]

9 hours ago, redpost said:

It's very basic physics:

* Wind resistance is exponential to speed of vehicle

Wind resistance force is quadratic, with power required to overcome the resistance being cubic. But since the distance you're traveling is the same regardless of speed, total energy consumed by air resistance is quadratic with speed. (approximately).

Note this is still very bad: at 30 miles an hour you'll expend 2.25 times as much energy overcoming air resistance than at 20 miles an hour.

But technically, not exponential 🙂

 

 

[Bic Basher]

6 hours ago, DuncanW said:

I've no idea or interest in where Malumbu lives, but fwiw I can assure you there are CPZs and LTNs in Bromley.

 

 

And cycle lanes.

[malumbu]

And loads of Tories too, two car families (only poor people use the bus, happy to drive to zone 3 eg Honor Oak Park to save money on their commute, about 50/50 on Brexit, white flight although dying off and far more cosmopolitan than say 20;years ago but very few 20 mph roads, booo, and not great on cycling infrastructure.  Not that I live in Bromley 

[OutOfFocus]

I dont think people are that rational. My .02p worth is that cars are (were) not designed to go comfortably at 20mph. On our late Golf it was just on the join between 3 and 4th gear.

 

[malumbu]

Gearing of vehicles is up to how manufacturers engineer vehicles, the type of journeys, power and top speed.  You could argue that most manufacturers engineer cars to go 30 mph above the national speed limit which could be seen as daft.  I expect a small city car is very happy at 20 mph, similarly a medium sized diesel due to low end torque.  So your tuppance worth may not be relevant.  This experienced driver doesn't have a problem including test riding electric Nissan Leafs on 20 mph (wonderful as it just made you smile)

[Earl Aelfheah]

There have been several crashes on EDG due to speeding drivers. No excuse for racing down that road.

[Penguin68]

On 15/07/2023 at 17:16, malumbu said:

Gearing of vehicles is up to how manufacturers engineer vehicles, the type of journeys, power and top speed. 

I think it's not so much manufacture as tuning. Many (most?) engines can be retuned to drive 'comfortably' at 20mph. Though proper tuning is a non trivial exercise.

 

On 08/07/2023 at 17:20, malumbu said:

IT would be good if the government mandate 29 mph, have publicity for this, recommend average speed cameras and ideally

Sorry, but that's rubbish. My 'average speed' in London is somewhere between 10 and 11 mph (I have an 'app on my car which notes this). But I do go well over 20 mph on e.g. the South Circular which has a 30 mph limit for much of it. You need absolute speed cameras on the relatively short London roads to catch those exceeding 20mph in residential areas. Average speed cameras are only effective for quite long stretches of road (miles) where traffic is not constantly stopping or turning. 

[malumbu]

A bit dismissive Penguin, my thoughts are based on the few 'quick' roads we have in the area, eg Brenchley Gardens, where almost all traffic exceeds 20mph, and some hits 50 plus.  The odd person doing 20ish will eventually get a boy/girl racer hammering past them, sometimes on the wrong side of the bollards, before braking for the speed camera (if they are going East).  If most roads round here are so congested that people crawl round well under 20, then you could argue there is no need for speed cameras.  The solution in the past would be speed traps but you rarely see these around London and no longer a police priority.  There was a community group that did speed watch but not sure if that exists.  They don't seem to have caught anyone in Ambridge recently (not to self, suggest to the BBC new plots with road charging, vehicle restrictions and CPZs - the EV charging station has certainly caught the village's attention 😀

[Penguin68]

Brenchley Gardens already has a speed camera, placed in a good position to catch speeding drivers. You are right that people speed there, but that camera seems inactive at times. It is not just the presence of cameras  but how they are managed which is key. Brenchley arguably has a different risk profile from heavily built up residential streets.