Cyclists taking over paths!!

[malumbu]

Pro LTN lobby, there is your issue, some fictious group that are undermining our society.  If you move away from this us Vs them mentally then there could be some rational debate.

[first mate]

Have I ever spoken about "undermining society"? I do wish you'd stop attributing your phrases to others and making up what others say. Tut tut, Mal.

So, are you saying LCC are not a pro cycle lobby and are not pro LTN? I thought you were outed some time back as part of Lewisham Cyclists, apologies if that is not the case?

Some of what you and other regular posters who support LTNs say seems rather similar to info to be found on the LCC crib sheet of tactics for getting LTNs underway and installed around London.

 

[malumbu]

This us vs them is tiresome and unhelpful.

[first mate]

So no denial from you Mal. Fair enough. But the 'us and them' that you keep referring to and allegedly deplore has also been pushed by you. For the umpteenth time, I am not anti cyclist; I cycle, much more than I drive. But that does not mean I automatically support every move by organisations like LCC to lever in LTNs and CPZ in as many places as they possibly can... just be cause I use a bike as transport? My concern is with traffic measures local to me and how council funding has been prioritised to install measures that I do not believe are necessarily for the greater good. So being anti certain cycle lobby tactics and agendas does not make me anti cyclist. That is a divide that exists in your imagination.

As per the Dave Hill article, I also think we need to address careless cycling behaviour of all kinds and figure a way to improve matters before it gets really out of hand. Up in London today I was appalled to see around thirty assorted Lime and non-powered bikes completely blocking a pavement...literally the whole pavement, so it was impossible to pass. A woman was being pushed in a wheelchair and looked quite harried. If the Council and Lime etc... want Lime bikes on every street in the borough this is the type of thing that has to be sorted now. Ditto cycling on pavements, running red lights, running floating pedestrian crossings. There has to be a generally recognised cycling etiquette; that currently falls into a number if camps that I can see, the hardcore let's compete with and pee off motorists time trial type; the I'm in a hurry type and I will because no-one will notice, the I don't give a toss/ get out of my way, the rest who cycle more gently and carefully.

I grow tired of the 'yeah but' and 'it's not as bad as' relativist arguments put forth by those who seem to think cyclists can do no wrong. I've also said before, those 'converts' who have enjoyed a bit of motor speed and risk taking will likely do the same on bikes. 

Edited September 28 by first mate

[Rockets]

3 hours ago, malumbu said:

This us vs them is tiresome and unhelpful.

Yes we have been saying this for a long time and it is actually the pro-LTN, pro-cycle lobby that has been the catalyst for the very culture war that they now accuse others of starting. Many in the pro- lobby are now reaping what they sowed.

FM you're right, the blind "cyclists are never wrong because they don't kill as many people as cars" narrative is incredibly damaging to their own cause. It's like those people trying to defend Starmer's  government by saying that their sleaze isn't as bad as the Tory sleaze....they are kind of missing the bleedingly obvious point...

[raptortruckman69]

This is true, cyclists are more or less responsible for this culture war. The press have been vilifying motorist for decades and as I said positively fawning over cyclists. As a result politicians have been enacting a decades long campaign against cars in favor of the Lycra clad louts who believe they are all above the law.

If they had just stayed in their painted cycle lane as it were, none of these problems would have happened.

Finally, law-abiding, tax paying drivers are standing up and pointing out the hypocrisy.

Edited September 29 by raptortruckman69

[Rockets]

 

Dulwich Library/Plough junction is particular hot-spot for bad cycling - I just wonder what can be done there to try and resolve the problem. It seems some cyclists think the green pedestrian light applies to them.

[first mate]

The one where the cyclist at the Dulwich Library LL junction is a classic. He jumps the red lights, turns right just as a female pedestrian is crossing the road he is turning into. Also all those cyclists without lights, at night and cycling on the pavement. Shocking!

I hope" Barby" also starts turning his attention to Lime and other company hire e-bikes and scooters blocking pavments.

Edited September 30 by first mate

[Penguin68]

I have noticed that some cyclists cleary consider themselves wheeled pedestrians, moving on and off pavements as they see fit; ignoring traffic signals, cycling across pedestrian crossings etc. They proceed just as a pedestrian would do, only faster. So I can imagine that they see pedestrian signalling as being relevant to them.

[Rockets]

These have appeared in Dulwich Park (there are a couple of them near the Dulwich Village entrance). Is this the council doing this?

[malumbu]

As a cyclist why oh why do you spend so much time finding dirt on cyclists?  I find this really strange.  Meanwhile a good article on the number of motorists being prosecuted following web and helmet can footage.  I'll post this on an appropriate thread, this is not a cyclist Vs driver comment rather just pointing out the disproportionate interest in cycling, admittedly by a small hardcore, on this forum.

Grateful for an answer to my question 

Edited October 5 by malumbu
Corrected grandma

[first mate]

Honestly Mal, if stuff like this suddenly crops up, it is of interest. I was not aware. I feel quite encouraged, especially if it is coming from the Council. A move in the right direction in terms of educating an allegedly growing cycling population, no?

Why are you so personally offended and why the need and haste to have to post stuff about poor driving as a response? It comes over as a bit hyper sensitive.

We all know there is careless driving, but there are penalties and deterrents in place. Not enough perhaps but at least something. There is not much in place for cyclists because really there was no need in recent history, given numbers. With the advent of Lime etc. that is changing and it needs to change.

[Hen123]

So why do so car drivers think they are above the law then? Over 90% break the speed limit on regular basis. Should the council start stencilling the roads around Dulwich explaining to drivers they need to keep to the speed limit and not kill as many pedestrians? 

[first mate]

Erm, in case you had not noticed, this thread is not about how to stop car drivers speeding it is about cyclists. Do feel free to start a thread on the subject you wish to debate. 

 

[Hen123]

Erm, in case you hadn’t noticed, you brought up motorists. 

[Rockets]

FirstMate - to earn your stripes as a fully fledged member of the cycling cult you have to scream BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CARS anytime anyone points out anything other than exemplary behaviour by cyclists. It's first page of the rule book.

The fact that the council deems it necessary to do this shows there might be a problem....BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CARS......

The fact they are reminding people that pedestrians have priority...BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CARS....

The fact that cyclists are posing a danger to pedestrians and the council is having to do this...BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CARS...

The fact there are no cars allowed in the parks making cycles the most likely to cause problems...BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CARS

Honestly the predictable responses are pitiful and again show how some just need to pull their head out of the sand look at the road ahead of them as if they pretend this is not a problem before they know it bikes will be banned from a lot of spaces (as they are in the centre of many European cities). To which the cultists will reply BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CARS!

It's not like they had enough warning to behave their behaviour..BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CARS

 

3 hours ago, malumbu said:

As a cyclist why oh why do you spend so much time finding dirt on cyclists? 

Finding dirt on cyclists...I was walking through the park and the new stencils appeared in front of me and I thought...well why is that necessary...why do you think those stencils might be necesswry Malumbu...?! What message are they trying to convey? 

3 hours ago, malumbu said:

this is not a cyclist Vs driver comment rather

Of course not..BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CARS! 😉

[first mate]

9 hours ago, Hen123 said:

Erm, in case you hadn’t noticed, you brought up motorists. 

No, Malumbu brought up motorists as a peeved response to the observation that someone else ( the council perhaps) had put new stencils next to the park in Dulwich, asking cyclists to slow down and share the space with pedestrians. I just responded.

Have you seen the stencils? Do you think they are a good idea or do you feel cyclists should not be asked to slow down in spaces shared with pedestrians?

[Rockets]

47 minutes ago, first mate said:

Have you seen the stencils?

Unlikely because, a bit like bad cycling, they are invisible to cycle cultists....

..BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CARS....;-)

[Hen123]

14 hours ago, first mate said:

We all know there is careless driving, but there are penalties and deterrents in place.

Here you are talking about motorists. 

[first mate]

Entirely predictable response. You focus only on that single element and completely ignore the context and the main focus of the thread. Again, do you think there is a call for cyclists who cycle in areas used by pedestrians to take greater care?

 

Edited October 5 by first mate

[Rockets]

I noticed today that the stencils have also been applied just inside the Court Lane gates too. There must be a "go slow" campaign being run by the council...only a few cyclists were heeding the advice today.

[first mate]

I am interested to know if this really is a council intervention. if it is, then it is a step in the right direction.

[Rockets]

I think it might be as they are also on the paths in the middle of the park too.

[Earl Aelfheah]

On 28/09/2024 at 22:51, Rockets said:

Yes we have been saying this for a long time and it is actually the pro-LTN, pro-cycle lobby that has been the catalyst for the very culture war that they now accuse others of starting. Many in the pro- lobby are now reaping what they sowed.

FM you're right, the blind "cyclists are never wrong because they don't kill as many people as cars" narrative is incredibly damaging to their own cause. It's like those people trying to defend Starmer's  government by saying that their sleaze isn't as bad as the Tory sleaze....they are kind of missing the bleedingly obvious point...

Irony is dead. 

[first mate]

Clearly Earl has zero interest in helping to educate cyclists to  slow down and pay more heed to pedestrians around them. Instead, he recycles an earlier post in a desperate attempt to change the subject.

Today, walking past Vanity Square, I was struck by the amount of cyclists careering around pedestrians, not one chose to just dismount and walk a few yards. Really poor. 

Perhaps the council need to put a few advisory stencils in Vanity Square, mind you it would mar that gorgeously expensive paving.