Cyclists taking over paths!!

[first mate]

I addressed policing earlier in the thread in response to Ex. Sorry you missed that.

Edited August 8, 2023 by first mate

[Rockets]

Mr Chicken, perhaps the councillors could reallocate some of that time they spend (on photo ops) with cops with speed guns to police some of bad cycling junctions. Often a visual deterrent is enough to influence behavioural change.

[mr.chicken]

East Dulwich

1 hour ago, first mate said:

I addressed policing earlier in the thread in response to Ex. Sorry you missed that.

I can't find it: I mean specifically what would you stop or reduce policing of to free up officers of some description to police cyclists.

 

4 minutes ago, Rockets said:

Mr Chicken, perhaps the councillors could reallocate some of that time they spend (on photo ops) with cops with speed guns to police some of bad cycling junctions. Often a visual deterrent is enough to influence behavioural change.

Unless you have some hard numbered on how much time is spent there, this sounds like another anti council rant. It's ok rocks, we heard you the first 400 times or so. You hate the councillors.

Also cyclists. Still trying to wrap my head around that one to be honest!

[first mate]

2 hours ago, Rockets said:

Mr Chicken, perhaps the councillors could reallocate some of that time they spend (on photo ops) with cops with speed guns to police some of bad cycling junctions. Often a visual deterrent is enough to influence behavioural change.

Indeed, why not or some of the volunteer groups who monitor cars with speed guns could extend it to cycling as well.

 

Posted 2 hours ago

East Dulwich

   3 hours ago,  first mate said: 

I addressed policing earlier in the thread in response to Ex. Sorry you missed that.

Mr Chicken said: "I can't find it: I mean specifically what would you stop or reduce policing of to free up officers of some description to police cyclists".

 

I know you get things mixed up and miss detail but even you must know the word 'policing' is not exclusive to a police force. Look again at my earlier replies.

Edited August 8, 2023 by first mate

[exdulwicher]

12 minutes ago, first mate said:

Indeed, why not or some of the volunteer groups who monitor cars with speed guns could extend it to cycling as well.

Speed limits don't apply to bicycles.

[first mate]

No, but they do apply to inappropriately souped up e-bikes and while the volunteers are at it they could film or call out other inappropriate cycling behaviour. The odd visit by a a local community officer on their rounds would also help. 

 

 

[Rockets]

3 hours ago, mr.chicken said:

You hate the councillors

I don't hate anyone and you accusing me of doing so is so typical and part of the armoury of name calling we have grown to expect from you. I disagree with many of their policies and the way they deal with constituents but I would never hate them. Reflects badly on you (and maybe politics in general nowadays) that that would be your go-to.

[mr.chicken]

1 hour ago, first mate said:

I know you get things mixed up and miss detail but even you must know the word 'policing' is not exclusive to a police force. Look again at my earlier replies.

Right, thanks for confirming you never gave such information.

I specifically said "policing" not "police" and you're criticising me because you mean "policing" not "police". That's a devastating rejoinder 🤣 🤣. Surely no lycra mafia mob pavement cycling scofflaw Illuminati could repel debate firepower of that magnitude!  There's a lot of forum traffic and I was willing to admit I may have missed the post, since I was on my phone. But you won't actually say in concrete what you want to be policed less.

What specifically do you think is less important and therefore needs less enforcement?

I don't mean the kind of vague generalities you always post like "oh some of those people should...". If you're to enforce the rules on cyclists using existing staff, other rules will be enforced less or not at all. Which ones?

Edited August 8, 2023 by mr.chicken
eh CBA with rocks rn

[malumbu]

People are missing the point.  Central government has to change their policies if there is to be change.  As others have said they have no appetite for enforcement and little time for education hence illegal twist and go e bikes and e scooters will continue to proliferate on our streets and pavements.

But looking at it from the other direction micromobility has great advantages in personal transport.

It's probably in the too difficult to manage box leave it to the next government (not sure if Starmer has any better ideas).

Pavement cycling is a nuisance but bothers others far more than me.  For some it is that they are wrongly concerned about road safety, others just don't bother with rules.  As long as this isn't dangerous then it's not a high priority for me.

The endorsement of Deliveroo with their shady employment practices, turning a blind eye to illegal bikes, lack of proper training and not even making an effort to ensure that riders have lights at night shoes where the government stands.  As consumers society is hardly sending a message that Deliveroo and others need to sort things out.  I've not even referred to diet and poor health that takeaways are a major factor.

Your time would be better spent lobbying your MP and government.

It would be nice to get some appreciation of my thoughtful post.  Go on make my day 😄

[mr.chicken]

8 minutes ago, malumbu said:

The endorsement of Deliveroo with their shady employment practices, turning a blind eye to illegal bikes, lack of proper training and not even making an effort to ensure that riders have lights at night shoes where the government stands.

The tactic of blaming contractors when a company sets up incentives which will cause accidents is unfortunately not uncommon. The relatively high number of sadly fatal tipper truck accidents are a result of this. Amazon do it too, having an army of contractors for delivery which are tightly enough controlled that Amazon get the deliveries how they want but loose enough to disclaim responsibility when the inevitable accidents happen due to the incentive structures.

 

[first mate]

27 minutes ago, mr.chicken said:

I

I don't mean the kind of vague generalities you always post like "oh some of those people should...". If you're to enforce the rules on cyclists using existing staff, other rules will be enforced less or not at all. Which ones?

Chickster, your repeated attempts to discombobulate and derail are sweet but not very effective.

Can you please point out where I have used the exact phrase "oh some of those people should" ?

 

 

[mr.chicken]

Just now, first mate said:

Can you please point out where I have used the exact phrase "oh some of those people should" ?

I specifically said "like" before the quotes indicating it was a paraphrasing not an exact quote. Perhaps ambiguous if you're inclined to always take things the worst possible way, but you've managed to use your faux outrage as an excellent excuse (after the tone policing and derailment) to not actually answer my question. Repeatedly.

My paraphrasing is entirely fair. You said: " I think we can possibly take a look at PSPOS and CEOs.". Don't dangerously overcommit there first mate! Perhaps you should qualify it as "I think we can possible maybe take a look at PSPOS and CEOs."

Anyway anyone want to bet a fiver that @first mate won't actually say anything concrete and declare unambiguously what he'd be happy to divert resources from in order to police those scofflaws on two wheels. I feel I should insist that the concrete solution needs to be one the council is even vaguely able to do something about, so no budget increases and nothing that requires new laws from the central government.

 

[first mate]

Community police on the beat, so at certain points already in situ, volunteers, and PSPOS/ CEOs, the latter a maybe because further scrutiny as to parameters of PSPO required. However, CEOs will be very well resourced, so it makes sense for them to be involved in policing.

Can you indicate what you were paraphrasing with "oh some of those people should".

 

[mr.chicken]

10 minutes ago, first mate said:

Community police on the beat, so at certain points already in situ, volunteers, and PSPOS/ CEOs, the latter a maybe because further scrutiny as to parameters of PSPO required. However, CEOs will be very well resourced, so it makes sense for them to be involved in policing.

Again with not answering the question. Do you not understand the question or do you understand but would rather deflect and prevaricate than admit you might not be right about this?

Never mind that police is the remit of the MET not southwark... But what you refuse to ever say is what do you want the police to stop policing in order to get mote of them on the beat. And the CEOs, are you suggesting they're not busy right now? If not, what do you want them to stop policing instead. And if you want more, what will you cut the budget to in order to get more of them.

It's all very well and good saying someone should do something (yet again!), but that means the someone has to not do something else. You appear to be incapable of saying what that should be.

The thing is I know exactly why you won't answer the question. It's because just about everything else is more important than this particular storm in a teacup and if you commit to not policing something else, it will be entirely obvious that the transfer of resources or personnel would be absurd. And you don't want to admit that the problem is simply not big enough to be a priority to anyone including yourself right now.

 

 

[first mate]

Since when have PSPOs and CEOs and volunteers been run by the MET? Community Police officers walk around the local area on bike or foot, easy for them to interact with those exhibiting inappropriate cycling behaviour or with volunteers out with speed guns, in the course of their rounds. 

You seem to be labouring incredibly hard in your efforts to try to score the odd point. 

[mr.chicken]

26 minutes ago, first mate said:

Since when have PSPOs and CEOs and volunteers been run by the MET?

You're using a weird mishmash of words which makes it very hard to follow. Are you talking about community police, (PCSOs) or referring to CEOs as "community police". I am labouring very hard to try and get you to make a clear, concrete point you but you are really not making it easy.

29 minutes ago, first mate said:

 volunteers out with speed guns, in the course of their rounds.

PCSOs are run by the MET, CEOs probably don't have the jurisdiction to tackle cyclists on paths. Not 100% clear, but

But also: your solution to enforcement without reducing coverage elsewhere is  "more volunteers"?

 

[first mate]

I'm surprised you don't know what CEOs are...or PSPOS for that matter?

Edited August 8, 2023 by first mate

[mr.chicken]

3 minutes ago, first mate said:

I'm surprised you don't know what CEOs are...?

I'm assuming you're talking about CEOs as in Civil Enforcement Officers, the officers formerly known as "traffic wardens". The ones covered by this legislation:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/contents#sch7

It's not 100% obvious to me that cycling on pavements is within their jurisdiction. Their powers are specified, so to confirm you'd have to find the law which matches up with not cycling on pavements and find if they have the legal power to enforce it. I don't know and I reckon you don't either but feel free to post chapter and verse to confirm it. I'm interested either way.

But the thing is CEOs aren't free. So what would you pull them away from to do your enforcement of not cycling on the pavement.

 

 

[Rockets]

I have certainly seen police officers enforcing red light jumping cyclists in Central London in a targeted campaign. I have also seen a police motor cyclist pull over an infringing Lime bike red light jumper and pavement cycler on the city end of London Bridge.

[first mate]

CEO's will be paid for by the huge amount of money for roads, currently in surplus. That is why CPZ and the infrastructure to support its imposition and management/ enforcement, which includes upscaling CEO's, is self -funding and will reap profits, probably paying for bike hangars etc.. too.

So with all those CEO's running around issuing FPN's for parking infractions why not make further use of that 'force' which is/will be very healthily funded. Or PCSOs, who as I am sure you know have only limited powers, so would not be taken away from more serious police work, but are a useful street presence. 

PSPOS are another flexible instrument that could be looked at (although Ex does not agree). 

I believe something is to be trialled in City of London where there will be powers to issue fines to cyclists on pavements and for running red lights. 

Edited August 8, 2023 by first mate

[Rockets]

Another batch.....Dulwich Library does seem to have something of a problem at that junction

 

 

[first mate]

I remain convinced a fair few are former boy racers who are now born again cyclists, they just cannot resist the lure of speed.

[Sue]

I was nearly hit from behind a few days back by a young man on a Lime bike speeding along the pavement in Lordship Lane (if I had moved slightly to the left he would have hit me).

 After continuing along the pavement for a bit, without looking to see what was coming he  veered into the road right in front of a car, which luckily didn't hit him.

I have no idea what the answer is, but I'm genuinely surprised more people aren't injured or killed in incidents involving poor cycling behaviour.

 

[heartblock]

Same here, was walking in the lovely community orchard at the back of Sainsbury’s with a backpack of shopping and I heard a clicking sound behind me...a Lime bike at speed and I also jumped out of the way. Plus the abandoned ones in the wooded area. 

I also avoid the school run and get an earlier train, so I don’t get bikes and scooters rammed into the back of my ankles.

It’s at present a minor issue compared to other problems, but I do worry someone will be injured.

[Rockets]

Looks like some parts of the city are taking action:

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/police-lycra-louts-jumping-red-lights-in-the-square-mile-b1108748.html?utm_source=newsshowcase&utm_medium=discover&utm_campaign=CCwqFwgwKg4IACoGCAowqvB9MMTRCTDIhdcBMOW8uQI&utm_content=related