Southwark-wide CPZ

[first mate]

I think there is little doubt that once they have dealt with diesel and then petrol cars they will go after EVs. Catherine Rose has said as much. They just don't want private cars in the borough, unless owned by a large hire car company.

[malumbu]

I'd love to know who TOLD you to buy diesels.  Rightly the UK moved to carbon based excuse duty.  The common rail injection made diesels feel less agricultural and more like petrol cars, with low end torque and better fuel economy suitable for long distance driving.  The manufacturers responded with smaller diesel engines even though for mainly urban driving small petrol cars were more suitable.  Worse still the manufacturers then persuaded many of us to buy SUVs.

On emissions there has been a massive drop in particulates from diesels, such that wood burners can now be a bigger source.

Sadly between national states, the EU, in getting the NO2 standard not to deliver, and manufacturers knowing that, not doing more and worse still cheating the test cycles, diesel vehicles became the main source of nitrogen dioxide at street level.

Not sure why so many people have a reason not to change their habits.  Oh I would do this, but......  Price and range of electric vehicles will improve.  Road, brake and tyre wear cause less issues than particles of soot from the internal combustion engine, burning wood, fossil fuels and waste.

It's about less and smarter driving.  Shame that manufacturers are promoting large EVs rather than sensible city cars.

I'll wager that nobody can find a government announcement from the past saying "you have to buy diesel". The most frugal of petrol engines would match diesel CO2 emissions at the height of diesel popularity.  Rather than give reasons not to act please do your part in supporting sustainable transport.

[Moovart]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41985715

 

Here's one link from a very quick search 

[BM13]

I wonder if steam train at Victoria station today (engine running full-bore while train was stationery) is considered sustainable transport by London mayor. Does the train company have to pay ULEZ charge?

[Moovart]

The Beast of Turin is ulez exempt and that has flames coming out of its engine when it drives into London but we digress as this thread is about CPZ

 

[malumbu]

Nowhere in the BBC report does it say that government told people to buy diesel.  

It's been seeded in your mind and that of the masses - encouraged by subsequent governments.

A returning Labour government in 2010 is likely to have persued a network of Low Emission Zones. 

Both Labour and then the Tories knew that diesels were spewing out more nitrogen dioxide than they should be and put their faith in tougher international emission standards.  Which failed to deliver.  In fact may have worsened things due to a larger NO2/NO ratio in the exhaust gases.  All governments employ scientists and engineers, and will also support research.  And speak to their counterparts across the world in Brussels and Geneva.  So none of this was a shock or state secret.

The Tories put things on the back burner as enforcement through the EU is painstakingly slow.  Defra were trumped by DfT and ultimately tougher action would have been black balled by Treasury. Then two things happened in late 2015, the government lost in the Supreme Court and Emissions Analytics found in a US surveillance projects dodgy things going on with VW diesels.

Action had already been announced surprisingly by a Tory Mayor, as much to put two fingers up to his old school chum Dave, after Dave refused to give him more pocket money.  So through the ULEZ Johnson pre-empted the network of Clean Air Zones announced by Cameron.  Surely none of you can object to reducing the number of older polluting diesels on our roads?

And discouraging burning wood.

[BM13]

53 minutes ago, Moovart said:

The Beast of Turin is ulez exempt and that has flames coming out of its engine when it drives into London but we digress as this thread is about CPZ

 

Ah, I though introduction of CPZ and previously ULEZ and LTN are all in the name of saving our environment. My mistake.

[malumbu]

So rather than the clever comments what are you two doing?  And if you want to campaign get the government to electrify the whole rail network, prohibit private jets, discourage travelling by air, increase on shore wind.  Better than clever remarks.

[Bic Basher]

14 hours ago, first mate said:

I think there is little doubt that once they have dealt with diesel and then petrol cars they will go after EVs. Catherine Rose has said as much. They just don't want private cars in the borough, unless owned by a large hire car company.

The Southwark Labour guide to greenwashing while making money out of more affulent Dulwich residents which then benefit the north of the borough.  Ticks all their ideological boxes.

Until Dulwich is on a par with the north of the borough with excellent bus and tube links, we're always going to be penalised because while bikes are useful and can be the quickest way to get around, there will always be residents who have no choice but to use a car, regardless if it's petrol, diesel or electric, along with those who rely on buses and rail.

At least we don't live in Croydon where the council tax was hiked up as well to pay for Labour's massive financial mistakes.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Bic Basher

[teddyboy23]

Was just looking at the latest stories on line .theirs one about Southwark expanding the cpz their spending 4.4million on extra cameras plus 48 new traffic wardens 

[Rockets]

Of course they are...Southwark see this ourely as a revenue generation tool....greewashing for revenue...they are the party of the working people....and putting those 48 wardens to work is solely because they need to give 48.people a new job - for this they should be applauded....

[redpost]

20 hours ago, Bic Basher said:

The Southwark Labour guide to greenwashing while making money out of more affulent Dulwich residents which then benefit the north of the borough.  Ticks all their ideological boxes.

Until Dulwich is on a par with the north of the borough with excellent bus and tube links, we're always going to be penalised because while bikes are useful and can be the quickest way to get around, there will always be residents who have no choice but to use a car, regardless if it's petrol, diesel or electric, along with those who rely on buses and rail.

At least we don't live in Croydon where the council tax was hiked up as well to pay for Labour's massive financial mistakes.

Yes, I agree whole heartedly, let's extend the victoria line to dulwich village and the plough on LL

It should only cost a billion or two, and there is such a high population density with all the surrounding detached and semi-detached housing with large gardens and driveways

 

[CPR Dave]

Reminder to sign petitions: 

Duwlich Hill - this one has the most signatures: https://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/mgEPetitionDisplay.aspx?ID=50000037&RPID=9133390&HPID=9133390

 

Nunhead - this one has 460 signatures. If it can get to 500 I think it has to go to a debate in cabinet which will really show them the strength of feeling and given what's just happened in Uxbridge it might make  them have a think...  https://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/mgEPetitionDisplay.aspx?ID=50000035&RPID=9133395&HPID=9133395

 

[malumbu]

A reminder as this forum is to debate issues that there is a petition supporting CPZs

[first mate]

1 hour ago, CPR Dave said:

Reminder to sign petitions: 

Duwlich Hill - this one has the most signatures: https://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/mgEPetitionDisplay.aspx?ID=50000037&RPID=9133390&HPID=9133390

 

Nunhead - this one has 460 signatures. If it can get to 500 I think it has to go to a debate in cabinet which will really show them the strength of feeling and given what's just happened in Uxbridge it might make  them have a think...  https://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/mgEPetitionDisplay.aspx?ID=50000035&RPID=9133395&HPID=9133395

 

Thanks CPR Dave.

[Charlie15]

Issues with the site - can’t log in to sign… 

[megalaki84]

Victory for ULEZ and a wonderful day for London that clearly shows the Mayor's determination on vehicle control. Hopefully this carries through to CPZs 

[first mate]

Maybe for some, others not so much.

CPR Dave, apparently there are issues with the CPZ site.

Can this be checked?

Duwlich Hill - this one has the most signatures: https://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/mgEPetitionDisplay.aspx?ID=50000037&RPID=9133390&HPID=9133390

 

Nunhead - this one has 460 signatures. If it can get to 500 I think it has to go to a debate in cabinet which will really show them the strength of feeling and given what's just happened in Uxbridge it might make  them have a think...  https://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/mgEPetitionDisplay.aspx?ID=50000035&RPID=9133395&HPID=9133395

[first mate]

Is there more news on the two petitions against CPZ? Are they going to combine or present separately?

[Charlie15]

There is a notice on website about it. I can log in to my Southwark account, just not to the petitions section. It has been like this for at least 2 weeks 

[Rockets]

Oh what a coincidence...not the first time this has happened....

[first mate]

What a coincidence, rather like the unintelligible YouTube upload of the recent Council Assembly, where Cllr McAsh did his 'reverse ferret' on CPZ.

This is the democratic process in Southwark.

[Andrea Mac]

Here is a new letter to Southwark objecting to the Borough wide CPZ roll out and keeping it for what it was intended - parking pressure and traffic congestion - so not only halt the new ones but to remove the old ones where not needed or requested. Open to all to sign, residents, visitors, businesses, not just from Southwark but anyone it affects. Anyone who thinks it’s unfair and wants the council to listen to their electorate.

https://opposethecpz.org/2023/07/27/southwark-wide-petition/

 

15 hours ago, Charlie15 said:

There is a notice on website about it. I can log in to my Southwark account, just not to the petitions section. It has been like this for at least 2 weeks 

You need to make a new login - your my Southwark login does not work for petitions - they don’t tell you that though! Found out through trial and error. But new sign up no problem 

On 22/07/2023 at 09:05, first mate said:

Is it clear who in a given area they accept input from?

Everyone. It is open to all but consolidating always helps

On 28/07/2023 at 10:08, Charlie15 said:

Issues with the site - can’t log in to sign… 

You need to make a new login as it’s weirdly separate from my Southwark 

On 24/07/2023 at 11:19, shoebox said:

Is there a Southwark wide petition to object against CPZs? As petitions are all about numbers, solidarity of the wards would have more impact and clout

Yes https://opposethecpz.org/2023/07/27/southwark-wide-petition/

[Charlie15]

Ok, thank you 

[Andrea Mac]

On 05/07/2023 at 09:53, David Peckham said:

Is it a single, Southwark-wide CPZ, or a mosaic of discrete CPZs?

If it's the latter, does that mean Southwark residents cannot make certain journeys within the borough without incurring a charge at their destination, despite having paid for a permit in their own area?

 

 

 

 

Yes - you will pay extra to park everywhere in Southwark except for your paid for parking permit zone that will be maybe 2 streets