One Dulwich have met with Cllr McAsh

[Rockets]

Interesting update from them.

 

Campaign Update | 27 June

1. Meeting with Southwark’s new cabinet member for streets One Dulwich met Cllr James McAsh, Southwark’s new cabinet member for the climate emergency, clean air and streets (and ward councillor for Goose Green), on 23 June. Dulwich Village ward councillors (Cllrs Newens and Leeming) were also present. The meeting lasted an hour. Why the LTNs don’t work We explained to Cllr McAsh that One Dulwich is an apolitical grassroots campaign, run by volunteers, with more than 2,000 supporters. We said that: we fully support the Council’s policies of reducing car use, reducing carbon emissions, and making cycling and walking safer, but that the LTNs across Dulwich are not achieving these aims. Instead, they displace traffic, delay buses (which are key to reducing car use), damage local shops and businesses, and discriminate against vulnerable groups, especially those with disabilities; many of the roads that have taken the displaced traffic are roads with schools, with high numbers of children walking, cycling and scooting along them; Southwark’s data on traffic and air quality is incomplete, hard to access, and hasn’t been updated since September 2022. The Dulwich Village junction We said that, in an attempt to find a compromise solution, we wanted the Council to: amend the 24/7 closure of the junction to timed restrictions, in line with the rest of Dulwich Village (and in line with the Council’s vision of Dulwich as a “school travel zone”) – although we pointed out that this on its own would not solve the problem of peak-hour congestion, caused by traffic displacement, on roads like Croxted Road, Burbage Road, and East Dulwich Grove, for which mitigations are needed;   open the junction at all times for Blue Badge holders, and for health professionals visiting vulnerable people at home (for example, GPs, community nurses and midwives, and carers). We pointed out that various council officers have, over the past year, put in writing that the Council is investigating the potential for access for vulnerable groups. We also said that, despite repeated requests, the Council has never done an audit of how the health and social care needs of Blue Badge holders are impacted by the junction closure. Cllr McAsh’s response Cllr McAsh said that: there is no plan to revisit the decision to close the Dulwich Village junction in the near future – although he agreed that, in principle, everything can always be amended;   he would look at the issue of bus delays on LTN boundary roads like Croxted Road, Dulwich Common (the South Circular) and East Dulwich Grove;   he would take up the issue of incomplete data;   he advised business-owners to raise concerns with ward councillors, but agreed that shops and businesses should be consulted on issues that affect them;   he wanted us to email him the various written assurances made by council officers about the potential for access for vulnerable groups and those who care for them;   he would come back to us with a substantive response to all the issues we had raised in two months’ time. When we queried why his investigations would take so long, he said that he would respond sooner if possible. As the meeting concluded, we said that One Dulwich will continue campaigning unless and until the Council finds a better and fairer solution that takes into account the health and social care needs of all groups of people. 2. New One Dulwich leaflet Please see our new leaflet, which is being distributed by volunteers across Dulwich over the next few days. If your road hasn’t yet been leafleted, and you can help, please email [email protected]. Thank you for your support.

[DuncanW]

This isn't, by chance, yet another LTN thread is it?

[alice]

It’s not over. 

[Rockets]

DuncanW - based on Admin's guidance (it needs to be new information and/or breaking news and relates to an East Dulwich LTN) it is perfectly within the rules for this part of the forum - so, by all means, keep moaning about it...and by default pushing it to the top - doh!!! 🤦‍♂️

 

Very glad Cllr McAsh is engaging with One Dulwich it will be interesting to see what comes of it (if anything as I suspect Cllr McAsh is often told to toe the party line by Southwark/Southwark Labour HQ).

 

As much as some of the usual suspects would very much like any debate on LTNs to be suppressed it's clear there are a lot of Dulwich residents that are demanding answers from the council and councillors and are not happy to accept the nonsense narratives those on the pro-LTN lobby (who know who you are) would like everyone to believe.

 

As Alice says...it is very much not over and One Dulwich did ask some very relevant questions. We got our OneDulwich leaflet through our door a day or so ago so good to see they are keeping it top of mind for residents (for those of you on the pro-LTN lobby side who don't live in Dulwich, or Southwark for that matter - ahem click on the link to see what the leaflet looks like! 😉 )

[bels123]

This doesn’t relate to the East Dulwich LTN, it’s Dulwich Village (again, yawn) so should be lounged. 

[Rockets]

Oh dear Bels - you really are getting desperate aren't you? What on earth are you scared of? Does it annoy you so much that people may have an opinion that differs from yours that you feel the need to supress that viewpoint? These attempts to get things lounged constantly reflect very poorly on you and the other pro-LTN lobbyist "lounge-police". Here's a piece of advice: If it bores you so much try not to engage.

 

P.S. Last time I looked East Dulwich Grove was in East Dulwich, Cllr McAsh is still the Goose Green councillor (a ward within East Dulwich) and the incomplete data relates to many roads in East Dulwich - so the discussions do, in fact, relate to East Dulwich.  Maybe you want to retract your brazen attempt to get the thread lounged?

[bels123]

No need to surpress anything, there is a lounge for non East Dulwich related items, the Dulwich Village LTN is already being discussed there.
 

Suggest you keep your comments ‘on topic’ rather than making personal slights as to how desperate / scared / annoyed or otherwise I am. 

[Rockets]

As I pointed out to you it does relate to East Dulwich….but you know don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story and all that….keep trying….

 

 

[DulvilleRes]

One Dulwich is an apolitical grassroots campaign

Where is the evidence for this? What is clear is that prominent local Conservatives have been in the past heavily involved in the anti LTN lobby, and ran their last local election campaign on virtually that single issue - and lost.   

Who are the One Dulwich officers/ active members? Where does the funding come from and are the accounts visible to the local community? Are there One Dulwich meetings open to all? How are One Dulwich decisions arrived at - a democratic vote of supporters?  Maybe I have missed something, but I have yet personally to see any answers; perhaps someone on this thread could illuminate. Until that happens the question could be asked - does One Dulwich have a lack of the kind of transparency and accountability that they constantly demand from the council? 

[Bic Basher]

So instead of discussing the implications of the meeting between Cllr McAsh and One Dulwich, we're going down this rabbit hole.

Right....

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

One Dulwich and the Tories painted the last local elections as a referendum on LTNs. They got their arses handed to them.

 

"we fully support the Council’s policies of reducing car use..."

yeah, I bet the owner of the mansion next to Gail's with the seven cars parked on the drive and all the anti-LTN posters is really committed to that! 🤣🤣🤣

Edited June 27, 2023 by Dogkennelhillbilly

[Bic Basher]

And here come the stereotypes.   Next it'll be about lycra clad cyclists in retaliation for the previous diatribe.    

Either discuss what the meeting achieved (or not), or it'll get lounged like the previous LTN thread.

[Rockets]

What must be really galling for the pro-lobby is that three years after it was set-up One Dulwich is finally getting traction. Now Cllrs McAsh, Newens and Leeming May only be paying lip service by meeting but with this meeting, funding for future projects shelved, Sadiq blaming Boris and urging residents to challenge bad LTNs there is a chink in the LTN armour and maybe, with the mayoral elections fast approaching Labour HQ are concerned transport (LTNs, ULEZ expansion, TFL funding) issues could become part of the narrative and maybe they will start listening to and addressing resident concerns.

 

And remember One Dulwich only came about because there was a section of the Dulwich community (2100 postcode identified sign-ups) that felt they were being ignored by the council in favour of those residents and others who had vested interests in seeing LTNs rollout and be seen to be successful. 
 

Maybe it will come to nothing but it is encouraging Cllr McAsh is engaging and promising answers.

 

 

 

 

[DuncanW]

@Rockets - I don't mind where the thread is, I'd have no issue with the main LTN thread being moved back here and don't care if people want to carry on discussing it after all these years... I just don't personally see the need to continuously start new threads on the subject.

[Bic Basher]

It's certainly an improvement than when Cllr Rose was in charge when she wasn't very good at taking constructive criticism for her policies from the opposition parties.

[Rockets]

19 minutes ago, DuncanW said:

@Rockets - I don't mind where the thread is, I'd have no issue with the main LTN thread being moved back here and don't care if people want to carry on discussing it after all these years... I just don't personally see the need to continuously start new threads on the subject.

I think that is what happens when people lobby to have threads lounged. There always used to be one thread where everything could live on LTNs but that has now been buried and so really all that is happening is those that spend their time trying to get something lounged are just reaping what they sow and admins rules on needing dedicated news etc means there can no longer be a single discussion thread as there was before because it gives those who lobby to get things lounged to say it has gone off topic from the title.

[Jenijenjen]

Rockets - what exactly is your connection with One Dulwich? 

[first mate]

Why are certain posters so very desperate to shut this down...again? As Rockets said, so long as some residents have an issue with local LTNs that impact them negatively a thread will keep appearing because this is a local forum. You are not being forced to read the thread so kindly stop trying to censor others.

I am also heartened that Cllr McAsh met with One Dulwich. Thank you Rockets for posting on this. 

Admin please look out for deliberate attempts by certain posters with form to get this new thread lounged. FWIW I am an ED resident with no ties to One Dulwich.

[Jenijenjen]

42 minutes ago, first mate said:

Why are certain posters so very desperate to shut this down...again?

These myriad threads regarding LTNs are dominating this section of the forum which before these tiresome incessant posts on the subject was varied with many subjects up for discussion.  Now the subject of LTNs dominates, other ED issues don't get a look in and people really can't be bothered with this section of the Forum any more.  I only visit purely out of habit.  As I've said before, I don't have a view on the LTNs, I can see pros and cons, my  gripe is that the subject has changed the nature of the forum from a stimulating place for local discussion to a borefest.

[Penguin68]

47 minutes ago, Jenijenjen said:

Now the subject of LTNs dominates, other ED issues don't get a look in and people really can't be bothered with this section of the Forum any more.

I'm guessing the range of topics for discussion in the Ukraine is also more limited than a couple of years ago. I'm not suggesting an equality here. Just that if there is something which is stand-out annoying (at least to some people) that does tend to dominate. And news about it is interesting. A lot of posts are about different aspects of the traffic and transport situation - but these do have a big impact on people's lives. And most are both topical and local (and I absolutely disagree with those who think that things peripheral to SE22 are not relevant to those of us who live (I do) in ED). The regular (but not continual) grid lock outside my Underhill Road house in rush hours since the Dulwich LTN introductions make very clear that we in ED are not in an island unaffected by our surrounds.

[Jenijenjen]

It would have been more appropriate to post this information on the LTN thread in the Lounge, not given a thread of its own in the ED Section thereby creating an inbalance of subjects discussed.

[first mate]

1 hour ago, Jenijenjen said:

These myriad threads regarding LTNs are dominating this section of the forum which before these tiresome incessant posts on the subject was varied with many subjects up for discussion.  Now the subject of LTNs dominates, other ED issues don't get a look in and people really can't be bothered with this section of the Forum any more.  I only visit purely out of habit.  As I've said before, I don't have a view on the LTNs, I can see pros and cons, my  gripe is that the subject has changed the nature of the forum from a stimulating place for local discussion to a borefest.

There is absolutely no obstacle to anyone posting a thread on a subject of interest. If others are similarly interested they will respond; that is democracy. Why not lead by example JJ and start a thread on a compelling subject that you feel is not being addressed and start a stimulating discussion?

As P68 says, there are threads on various aspects of traffic and road infrastructure because these things seriously affect the lives of residents.

Anyway, back on thread, did Cllr McAsh say where he would respond in two months time? Will he email One Dulwich or meet up with them again?

 

[Rockets]

Oh my...the LTN lounge police are really showing their colours aren't they - it's really quite sad that people think this type of behaviour is acceptable nowadays as they try to suppress discussion just because they are happy with (and no doubt directly benefitting from) the measures? How they all jump in and try to say "oh this is not about East Dulwich" yet never police any other thread that talks about issues not immediately and directly linked to SE22 postcodes only.

 

And Jeni - the only link I have with One Dulwich is that I signed up to their email list and one of those 2000+ dots on the map of Dulwich is my registration - beyond that I have never engaged with them so if you are trying to paint me as one of the people behind it you are gravely mistaken. Perhaps you might want to ask the same question of some of the residents groups on Melbourne Grove and groups like Clean Air Dulwich about their relationships with, and discussions with, the council! 

 

Bottom line is that there are many on this forum who hate to hear that their beloved LTNs may not be as universally popular as they think and are terrified that groups like One Dulwich exist and are now, finally, getting a hearing with the council and what that might mean for their nice quiet streets.

 

They are terrified of anything that might level the playing field because they know what the outcome is if the council starts actually properly analysing what is fair and equitable to everyone. With Cllr Rose leaving this might be the chance for the council to repair the damage she, and her team, did and rebuild some bridges with many parts of the community.

[hpsaucey]

3 hours ago, Rockets said:

Oh my...the LTN lounge police are really showing their colours aren't they - it's really quite sad that people think this type of behaviour is acceptable nowadays as they try to suppress discussion just because they are happy with (and no doubt directly benefitting from) the measures? How they all jump in and try to say "oh this is not about East Dulwich" yet never police any other thread that talks about issues not immediately and directly linked to SE22 postcodes only.

 

And Jeni - the only link I have with One Dulwich is that I signed up to their email list and one of those 2000+ dots on the map of Dulwich is my registration - beyond that I have never engaged with them so if you are trying to paint me as one of the people behind it you are gravely mistaken. Perhaps you might want to ask the same question of some of the residents groups on Melbourne Grove and groups like Clean Air Dulwich about their relationships with, and discussions with, the council! 

 

Bottom line is that there are many on this forum who hate to hear that their beloved LTNs may not be as universally popular as they think and are terrified that groups like One Dulwich exist and are now, finally, getting a hearing with the council and what that might mean for their nice quiet streets.

 

They are terrified of anything that might level the playing field because they know what the outcome is if the council starts actually properly analysing what is fair and equitable to everyone. With Cllr Rose leaving this might be the chance for the council to repair the damage she, and her team, did and rebuild some bridges with many parts of the community.

Speaking personally, one of the things that irks is the Dan Wooton esque characterisation of people and presumed attitudes (flagged in bold) - example of which above. I'm not sure how this type of rhetoric is supposed to contribute to the final hope which is to 'rebuild bridges with many parts of the community' when the language is so cartoonish and divisive.

 

HP

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by hpsaucey
edit

[Bic Basher]

The fact is One Dulwich have provided new information, the fact Cllr McAsh actually met up with One Dulwich is a huge step forward in the relationship between Southwark Council and the anti-LTN group who previously dismissed them.

While that clearly doesn't please those who think the LTN's are working, it shows that Cllrs need to listen to all sides of the debate which the likes of Rose, Newens and Leeming were blind sighted previously.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Bic Basher