LTN Discussion

[legalalien]

Same signs on EDG relating to both MG north and south apparently. I imagine delivery vehicles to Charter East and MG north residents might think twice about entering the road…

[Spartacus]

When you travel along Barry Road to the library, there's a similar sign on the left just before the lights indicating no access ahead.

It's been position in such a way that it blocks the left hand turn filter until you are past it.

The signs really should have a distance on them to indicate no traffic in 500 yds as they are currently confusing

Had anyone complained to the council or DfT ?

[ab29]

Not a driver myself but hearing from those who drive - this is a money making exercise and nothing else. High time for One Dulwich to perk up the 'Remove unjustified road closures' campaign.

[Rockets]

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Thanks Rockets, that's helpful. I'm pretty dubious of Southwark News reports on LTNs, as they've run a campaign against them that's included very misleading, sometimes false reporting. It's a shame that they quote the report out of context, and don't link to it, but not that surprising perhaps.

Reading the report, it sounds as though the issues with increased bus times referred to in the Southwark News headline were prior to the changes Southwark put in place in March. Although it does sound that Croxted road Northbound (whilst improving), may still be experiencing increased traffic.

So perhaps the headline ought to be - a very successful traffic reduction scheme isn't 100% perfect and there continues to be monitoring and some adjustments being made. That is pretty shocking.

 

But Rahx3 - even if you think Southwark News are running a campaign against LTNs it's pretty compelling what the TFL report says isn't it?

Again this is from the TFL report that Cllr Leeming wanted to not be sent to residents before he redacted it....

Herne Hill is the best logical alternate route for northbound drivers who are otherwise unable to travel through Dulwich Village

This has caused increased flows through this section of network resulting in increased congestion

That's not spin or part of a misleading campaign - that statement comes from TFL about the cause of the Croxted Road problems - laying the blame clearly at the Dulwich Village LTN and it is categoric proof that the LTNs in Dulwich are causing the issues, which is the polar opposite of what your fellow LTN supporter Cllr Richard Leeming has been telling/misleading people about the traffic on Croxted Road. This is why Leeming was so desperate to redact the TFL report and said "this must not be sent to the residents". Why? Because it exposes the lies the council and councillors have been telling people about the impact of LTNs and shows that LTNs do cause displacement, do delay buses and do increase pollution in other areas.

From day 1 the council have been manipulating everything to do with LTNs to paint them in a positive light and confirms what many of us have feared - that the council and pro-LTN supporters have been lying to people to defend the LTNs that create quiet roads for them and increase congestion for everyone else and that is a disgrace and the council and the pro-LTN supporters should be ashamed of themselves.

 

I don't know how Cllr Leeming has the power to redact a tfl report. The fact that we can read it online suggests that hasn't happened.

The point I was making is that Southwark have responded to the issues raised by tfl and made changes accordingly. The tfl report suggests that the tweaks made in March have been broadly successful and that they continue to work with Lambeth and Southwark. The fact is that data show a broadly positive impact on traffic reduction across the area and an increase in walking and cycling. The 'shocking' news is that they have continued to monitor and adjust the scheme, in order to improve it over time.

 

Rahx3 - it appears Cllrs Leeming and Newens sent a number of objections/changes to the report to the person who deals with the councils within TFL but these changes were not incorporated into the final report and that is when Cllr Leeming said it must not be sent to residents in the form it was.

For transparency perhaps the Cllrs would like to share the changes they asked to be made to the report - but from what I read it looks like the councillors have all lost their appetite to vocalise the changes they wanted mad with the general public…one can only wonder why….might be a good time for an FOI to help them….

[Joe]

ADMIN NOTE:

A few people had made reports of the LTN thread going a bit off-topic (gravitating towards licensing of cyclists), so I've split the unrelated stuff into a separate Lounge thread: https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=2285056. Feel free to pick up the discussion there.

[malumbu]

Most discussions go off thread Joe. Not sure if you plan to intervene elsewhere. It worries me that people complain about this. It probably happens on other similar social media sites. Yes I know that I have now gone off thread and I am not inviting anyone to discuss this.🙂. More bothered when threads get moved to the Lounge, which can be a kiss of death, whilst it should be the right place for a broader discussion

[Bicknell]

back on thread...

head of highways cross with tfl report on dulwich ltn

[Spartacus]

I guess the best "united front to the public" would be to hold their hands up and say "we got it wrong, how can we work together to fix it"

[Rockets]

Wow - it is all really starting to unravel isn't it. You do wonder how many other reports the council and councillors changed/redacted and what was the catalyst for TFL to ignore their changes to this report? Maybe TFL are fed-up with the way the council manipulates reports to hide the damage the LTNs are actually doing.

I did laugh when I read that either Margy or Richard had written to TFL saying there needed to be more detailed analysis of the impact of the measures before any conclusions could be reached - that's a bit rich coming from councillors who were more than happy not to have any detailed analysis done when they were championing how wonderful their LTNs were and how they were most definitely not displacing traffic and causing congestion elsewhere yada yada yada.

[Bic Basher]

I rented a Lime bike to ride inside the LTN today. Now while I saw bikes riding in and out of Court Lane Gate to go up Eynella Road, I didn't see a single bike bar myself on Court Lane.

I'm sure this is also benefitting Lime who are making money from people using bikes for short hop trips as I did today, but still unsure about the major benefits for residents outside the LTN.

[Bicknell]

how southwark counts pedestrians in calton ave

[Rockets]

Goodness me - so really it's the shop footfall and nothing directly linked to Calton at all....is there any stat from the LTN programme that the council hasn't tried to manipulate?

[Spartacus]

It would be interesting to see how similar data on cycling was captured and in which area to verify if the stats presented by the council reflect reality or not.

[Spartacus]

Interesting and whilst mentioned before, this Southwark news story puts the debate between councillors and TfL into perspective.

https://southwarknews.co.uk/news/like-a-red-rag-to-a-bull-emails-reveal-council-feared-impact-of-dulwich-ltn-report/

[Spartacus]

Also came across this, whilst not ED, it is just around the corner and reinforces what residents in East Dulwich have experienced

https://newsfromcrystalpalace.wordpress.com/2022/08/31/blocked-off-roads-report-shows-massive-increases-in-car-traffic-on-lambeth-ltn-boundary-roads/

No idea on the validity of the data but makes fascinating reading.

[legalalien]

Update on the two Melbourne Grove barriers - now officially being made permanent after the temporary orders made at the end of the previous consultation.

https://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/mgIssueHistoryHome.aspx?IssueId=50029641&OptionNum=0

ETA - final report here

https://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/documents/s108753/Report.pdf

[Rockets]

Are the council digging for oil in the middle of Margy Square?

In all seriousness I thought there was due to be a consultation on any further changes to the road layout there yet there appears to be a huge flower patch going in - is this as a result of the consultation?

[alice]

It’s a grave.

[Nigello]

All that money and time and effort spent on various versions of this junction and it’s still not done, and nor do the majority of cyclists abide by the law. Most go through on red and some who don’t just decide to ride on the footpaths, even with a dog in tow and cute kiddie on board.

[Rockets]

I am not sure how doing what they are doing helps the problem of a few cars driving through - looks like they will still be able to, either by design or mistake, drive through as "the grave" only blocks one side of the road.

It also does nothing to address the bigger issue of cyclists flying through the junction at high speed so it would have been good if some cycle calming measures could be put in as well. Surely something could have been added that straddles both lanes of the junction in front of the shops that would visually deter drivers, but allow emergency services to navigate it and slow cyclists at the same time?

[terrynutkins]

What’s the point of the LTN if traffic past the schools is as bad as ever?

This photo was taken at 8.50 this morning.

[heartblock]

You are just imagining this traffic...it's not really there ...and LTNs make everything better.

[malumbu]

You've lost me here. There is a photo of Dulwich village with some traffic on it. As it always has in rush hour. It doesn't appear to be bumper to bumper but if it is, this simply shows that many motorists will drive whatever.

If you have a point to make then please explain it rather than leave it vague/cryptic

[Rockets]

It's interesting that in the last couple of weeks two of the main pillars the pro-LTN lobbyists built their campaign around (that London had seen a huge - millions/billions of miles -increase in travelled miles and that there has been a cycling boom) have been exposed as utterly false - travelled miles in London had been decreasing constantly over a long period and cycling levels are lower than they were in 2018.

[Occamsracer]

Hi, I live on Turney Road and yesterday I came out to get in my car to drive to Gail's and I couldn't find it. There was a note left where I had parked it saying that the council had taken it away on a lorry and were going to compress it into a cube? And that I only had 30 minutes to move my cube?

Is this to do with the LTN and does anyone know how I can find my cube?