LTN Discussion

[alice]

Dulwich Village = Vote Labour but Act Tory

[Bic Basher]

I have no intention of voting Tory or Labour at the election in May. Both parties are equally as bad as each other.

From the interview on LBC in the week, I understand some anti LTN candidates will stand in Village Ward in an attempt to kick Labour out of the ward using protest votes. There was a mention of people also standing in other Dulwich wards affected by the LTN, although I can't see one winning in Dulwich Wood for example where it only affects a tiny part of the ward however frustrating it is to have Labour Cllrs pushing through the Dulwich LTNs.

[legalalien]

I believe the two candidates referred to on LBC are Clive Rates and Tristan Honeyborne (sp?) who are standing on a conservative ticket.

Because of the way the Southwark constitution works, to have any chance of getting on a committee (where you could at least get your voice a bit better heard, even if you?ll be continuously outvoted), you have to be part of a formal political grouping of two or more councillors. So it makes sense for even relatively independent councillors to stand on some sort of party ticket. I don?t know how formal a ?new? political grouping would have to be or how hard it would be to set it up.

You get a flavour for how it works from this doc

https://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/documents/s76604/Report%20-%20Calculation%20of%20Political%20Balance%20proportionality.pdf

[Southeast Twenty Stu]

.

[northernmonkey]

Just to be clear- they are not independent.

Nor are they independents standing on a Conservative ticket.

They are standing to be conservative councillors as members of the Conservative party.

Their main policies appear to be ?remove all LTNs? which will appeal to some, but let?s not confuse the issue.

They are not independents, they are Tories

Bic Basher Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I have no intention of voting Tory or Labour at

> the election in May. Both parties are equally as

> bad as each other.

>

> From the interview on LBC in the week, I

> understand some anti LTN candidates will stand in

> Village Ward in an attempt to kick Labour out of

> the ward using protest votes. There was a mention

> of people also standing in other Dulwich wards

> affected by the LTN, although I can't see one

> winning in Dulwich Wood for example where it only

> affects a tiny part of the ward however

> frustrating it is to have Labour Cllrs pushing

> through the Dulwich LTNs.

[Rockets]

It will be very interesting to see how other candidates, not Labour of course, react in terms of their approaches to LTNs as a result.

[heartblock]

Seeing as the Labour Party is quite happy to give the whip to a Conservative MP, with a highly dubious voting record - even I as a lapsed member (although as the LP has data issues - they don't know who is a member and who isn't - hence we cannot even vote for someone to stand as a councillor at present) - I find it hard to tell the difference, especially with the LP promoting private healthcare and Rachel Reeves comments the other day. So more than happy to vote for a centrist Conservative who will remove LTNs than a centrist LP member who won't.

Even the background to any LP MP on TV is now a purple colour.

[northernmonkey]

What policies do they have that show they?re ?centrist? @heartblock?

The only policies they suggested were fighting to remove LTNs and fixing the postal service (something that they had no remit over).

There is nothing to suggest that they are ?Tory light? so let?s not pretend that in voting for them you won?t be voting for Conservative councillors - they are part of the local association with all that entails

[ab29]

"What policies do they have that show they?re ?centrist? @heartblock? " - good question, as majority of what Labour does these days seem to be rather extreme e.g. LTN: screw those less off & living on the main roads - we have a new idee fixe now!

[heartblock]

Labour is presently 'Tory light'.. so tell me the amazing LP policies I should vote for? I'm not in Village Ward anyway - so will vote Green in the hope they listen to a former Green Party Council candidate for Lewisham and WHO advisor on clean air policy who recognises LTNs as a disaster for residents living on main roads - or as she phrases is "clean air apartheid" her words not mine.

[trinidad]

I think if Labour councilors arte choosing not to respond to enquires / emails / letters etc, let them know exactly how you feel in May at the next council elections. We need councilors which listen and are responsive. If councilors choose to ignore, punish them at the ballot box and not on this thread.

[northernmonkey]

I?ll take that response as ?there is nothing to indicate that these Tory candidates aren?t Tories!?

Whilst it might not matter if you?re not in their ward, the idea of presenting Tory candidate or trying to position them as ?centrist? just because they?ll campaign to remove LTNs is a dangerous and slippery slope.

[ab29]

"the idea of presenting Tory candidate or trying to position them as ?centrist? just because they?ll campaign to remove LTNs is a dangerous and slippery slope."

For me and my neighbours removing LTN means LESS air pollution and LESS noise. What's not to like?

[northernmonkey]

Just don?t kid yourself you?re not voting Tory!

[legalalien]

I?ve mentioned before that I tend to try to vote for the person not the party in LG elections ...so if either of CR or TH convince me that they?ll genuinely try to listen to and represent the views of all constituents in my ward then I don?t care if they are Tory or not. The chance of a Southwark wide swing putting the Tories in charge at Tooley Street seems quite slim, and I think a few dissenting voices would be a good thing.

I don?t have a view on these particular candidates yet though. Maybe be they?ll turn up here at some point or hold a meeting to tell people their thoughts.

Do we know who the candidates for other parties are, yet?

[Rockets]

Unfortunately, the council and our councillors have made LTNs a key issue for these upcoming elections - in some wards it may be the biggest issue and may be what motivates voters to vote for one candidate over another.

Having watched many council meetings and seen the way the council and councillors act it is clear they need some sort of opposition in Tooley Street, even if it is one of two additional agitators making life more difficult for them.

It would be interesting to see who else is running and what their position on the LTNs is. Have the Lib Dems played their hand. I know they have been supportive of LTNs but have they revealed their hand for May?

[Bic Basher]

Rockets Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It would be interesting to see who else is running

> and what their position on the LTNs is. Have the

> Lib Dems played their hand. I know they have been

> supportive of LTNs but have they revealed their

> hand for May?

I haven't got a clue what the Southwark Lib Dems are planning for Dulwich, but they would be a credible alternative to the Tories, Labour and the independent protest group if they decided to go down the middle and go for another credible consultation which takes on board what residents really want and then act on it.

The Village Ward election results will be interesting to see if the largely affluent voter base will vote for Labour again to keep their traffic free residential streets or the anti-LTN Tories and independents who want to see the scheme axed. If Labour do keep all of the Dulwich wards, it'll be with reduced majorities.

[ab29]

As long as they promise to remove the LTN I do not care.

northernmonkey Wrote:

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> Just don?t kid yourself you?re not voting Tory!

[northernmonkey]

Bic Basher- you keep referring to independents. There aren?t any independents who have announced they are standing.

The only announced candidates to date are the Tories.

The Lib Dem guy who expects to stand has been on twitter, but last I heard he wasn?t confirmed.

[ab29]

Anyone who promises to remove the LTN - harmful and unjust scheme - has my and my neighbours vote.

[northernmonkey]

That is entirely your choice, but I?ve seen more than 3 different posters on here trying to suggest either that the Conservative Candidates are ?independents standing on a conservative ticket?, or having some idea that they?re actually independent candidates which is very much not the case.

[Bic Basher]

There was someone else on Twitter who is clearly a socialist who was plugging the Dulwich Alliance candidates are Tories mantra as well today.

This seems to be the tactics used by either anon Labour activists or members of the pro-LTN groups who are suggesting that they're Tories in an attempt to put off voters who aren't in any way Conservative from voting against Labour.

Why would two supposed Tory members put themselves up for election and then reduce the Tory candidates chances of winning by splitting the anti-LTN vote? If anything, it may do Labour a favour by using the core Labour vote with the pro-LTN lobby.

[Jenijenjen]

They have been selected by the Tory party as their official candidates. I fail to see how this makes them independents. One was a co founder of Dulwich Alliance, demonstrating the link between the Tories and anti LTN campaigning. What is their prime motive - do they want to get rid of the LTNs or get voted in?

I?m posting as someone who is ?clearly a socialist?

[legalalien]

Back on the subject of political groups and the allocation of committee places: it seems that some councils include ?solo? independent councillors in their calculation to allocate spots, but Southwark is not one of them, there has to be a ?political group? of at least two councillors in order to be included in the calculation. However, I think two independent councillors could declare themselves a ?group? for this purpose.

See https://www.local.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/FACTSHEET%20-%20Proportionality.pdf

And regs here https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1990/1553/contents/made.

So, further to my previous post, I think two councillors *just* concerned about LTNs could stand as independents, declare themselves to be a ?political group? and potentially get themselves on a committee (or two). But still couldn?t do much in reality.

Given some of the posts above regarding factionalism in the local Labour Party, I wonder whether post- election, councillors on the left of the party might declare themselves a ?political group? for this purpose to ensure they have plenty of representation on committees, if internal Labour politics didn?t already yield that result. I suspect this would be prevented by party rules and a whipping operation though!

Always good to learn something new about the operation of local government.

[legalalien]

Update on Wood Vale traffic calming measures

https://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/mgIssueHistoryHome.aspx?IId=50026426