LTN Discussion

[CPR Dave]

An Ultra Low Emission Zone that has pollution levels so high that people are asked to stay inside and not to exercise. What a stonking success. Well done.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Were you under the impression that ULEZ alone was going to fix London's air quality problems? Because no-one ever said that.

[CPR Dave]

The Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, said: ?The world?s first Ultra Low Emission Zone is an essential measure to help improve air quality in our city, protect the health of Londoners, and lengthen our lead as the greatest city on earth. ... Together we can ensure everyone who lives, works in, or visits our city has the cleanest possible air to breathe.?

It's another flawed Boris Johnson idea that local Labour government have adopted with glee abandon.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

And did you think that meant the ULEZ alone was going to fix London's air quality problems? Because that's not what he said. (That quote should probably go in a little book of "things Johnson said that are true").

[dougiefreeman]

Dulwich caller on LBC this morning - catch up here: https://www.globalplayer.com/catchup/lbc/uk/episodes/2zGtPJwrfFWC6sFW1rhx4WtLKG/

Segment starts at 1hr 20 in but the caller is in 1hr 23

[ab29]

Very well said Maggie - LTN is a disastrous scheme.

There are other callers too, from Islington and Palmers Green, saying the same and how data is being manipulated by the councils across London to show the perceived support for LTN.

[Rockets]

Love Cllr Rose's defence of not being able to make changes on unspecified claims....this from. A council that willfully ignored the input of residents during the LTN consultation. You get the sense they are playing political dodgeball at every turn....

Cllr Catherine Rose, cabinet member for transport, parks and sport, said: ?We have really listened to local people in making many changes to the schemes, to improve accessibility for people with disabilities and lower mobility. We have introduced a wide range of exemptions and changes to assist our most vulnerable residents. Driving is an important liberty for many older residents, who wish to continue driving after 70.

?Of course walking and cycling aren?t always possible for some people and we do not claim we have got it all right, but we can?t make changes based on unspecified claims. We need residents to contact us with specific cases of where this has had a negative impact on someone we can look at how best to mitigate against that.

https://www.southwarknews.co.uk/news/catastrophic-harmful-and-savage-dulwichs-elderly-say-they-suffer-under-low-traffic-neighbourhood-scheme/

[march46]

It?s great that cargo bikes deliveries are taking off in the area, I see a wide variety of companies using them to get about. Better cycling infrastructure gives them a competitive edge. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jan/20/cargo-without-carbon-the-rise-and-rise-of-e-bike-deliveries

This website is great if you?d like to support businesses choosing to deliver their services / goods by bike - lots of options for SE22 postcode http://broughtbybike.com/findacompany/

[heartblock]

Maybe the parents of the children attending Alleyns and JAGS could deliver their children by cargo bike rather than to Mercedes, Jags, Range Rovers ... including the ones that park on Village Way and sneak out a bike for the last 20 metres to pretend to all the other parents that their kid is travelling to school actively

[march46]

Extending the CPZ hours to include school drop off times would help stop parents parking on Village Way, or better still - install a cycle path!

[heartblock]

I support a cycle lane - preferably an elevated one as part of an extended pavement, I suppose the issue on ED Grove is buses - we could do with a bus lane, now that the congestion has slowed the bus route down. Village way from EDG to Half Moon is the parental parking paradise for school drop-off anywhere and everywhere.. CPZ hasn't stopped some extra-ordinary parking by parents on ED Grove, with an extra bit of idling fumes thrown in.

[march46]

Came across these videos which clearly explain the forthcoming changes (from 29th Jan) to The Highway Code, giving priority to the most vulnerable road users.

[ed26]

Good videos and I totally support the forthcoming changes, but there are a few errors.

1. The pedestrian priority video should show a car doing a right hand turn into that road, with traffic building up behind them while more and more pedestrians cross the road, and drivers behind going up onto the pavement to get past the car that is waiting to turn right.

2. The wait to turn near cyclists shows a cyclist cycling along the inside of a car that is already indicating left, and the Highway Code (and updates) say that they should not do that.

3. The zebra crossing video shows a cyclist waiting at a zebra crossing, which is clearly a joke.

Serious point though - crossing East Dulwich Grove at the Lordship Lane junction is a nightmare - I usually cross Lordship Lane to avoid the junction. It's also difficult to turn into EDG because a lot of pedestrians just cross there without stopping, possibly because they believe the junction is traffic-controlled by the nearby pedestrian crossing on Lordship Lane. Changes to the Highway Code could make that junction even more dangerous if more pedestrians believe (rightly) that they have priority and drivers / cyclists don't obey or understand the changes. Junctions like that will definitely need a change of signage / infrastructure if they are to become safe.

[Nigello]

march46 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It?s great that cargo bikes deliveries are taking

> off in the area, I see a wide variety of companies

> using them to get about. Better cycling

> infrastructure gives them a competitive edge.

> https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jan/20/c

> argo-without-carbon-the-rise-and-rise-of-e-bike-de

> liveries

>

Yes, I have seen a fair few of these about and am glad to see them. Likewise (road) cycling parents can be seen dotted about on these. Some Deliveroo, etc. employees use standard pushbikes or e-bikes, even electric Vespas. We are, though, a very long way from this becoming the norm, especially when it comes to the "school run" (which I don't even think was a phrase thirty years ago, at least not in my experience).

> This website is great if you?d like to support

> businesses choosing to deliver their services /

> goods by bike - lots of options for SE22 postcode

> http://broughtbybike.com/findacompany/

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

heartblock Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Maybe the parents of the children attending

> Alleyns and JAGS could deliver their children by

> cargo bike rather than to Mercedes, Jags, Range

> Rovers...

...or even send them on the numerous school buses that the schools run.

As an aside - 90% of these cross-town commutes of young children are just a symptom of a wider problem: that state primary schools vary widely in quality. If every neighbourhood state school were high quality and the rich didn't insulate their kids from the problem by chucking money at it, then there would be no need for kids to be shuttled across London so often. Plenty of other European countries seem to make it work.

[Waseley]

Interesting point, going off on a tangent which deserves a separate thread ...competition and choice introduced by Thatcher leading to many travelling further for education. This has been exacerbated by the increasingly anxious middle class parents, those with the least to worry about (a radio 4 quote). I won't lob a grenade in and refer to individual schools.

[march46]

Looks like pedal-me are looking at doing cargo bike school runs with DBS checked riders. This could be a better option for getting children to school instead of an SUV.

[Bic Basher]

ULEZ has worked so well that when I walk down LL from the Library up to the Grove, I've smelt fumes from the standing traffic in the peak.

Ironically the evening peak today wasn't so bad because of the no right turn into Dulwich Common from LL. Maybe that would have been a more sensible idea to reduce traffic in ED that what we got instead?

[ab29]

One Dulwich update:

Why is Dulwich Village junction still closed?

The experimental traffic order that closed the Dulwich Village/Calton Avenue/Court Lane junction ran out on 29 December 2021.

On 24 December 2021, because the deadline for calling in the final decision to make the decision permanent was 4 January 2022, the Council brought in a further 21-day Emergency Traffic Order (a Temporary Traffic Order). This ran out on 19 January 2022.

As far as anyone can see, the permanent traffic order that follows the Council?s decision has not yet been issued (Cllr Richard Leeming tweeted on 11 January that the decision was ?implementable?). We can?t find any evidence that a further temporary traffic order has been issued either.

So on what basis is the junction still closed? If anyone has any information, please get in touch.

?Catastrophic, harmful and savage?

Good coverage of Age Speaks? protest against the Dulwich LTNs in Southwark News here. Decision-maker Cllr Catherine Rose says, disingenuously, ?we can?t make changes based on unspecified claims. We need residents to contact us with specific cases of where this has had a negative impact.? It seems that a public consultation, thousands of emails, public meetings and a deputation to cabinet by Age Speaks on 7 December 2021, which included detailed case studies (from 53:30), just weren?t quite specific enough?. Please email [email protected] with your response to her comments.

A representative from the East Dulwich Grove residents? group also spoke to Nick Ferrari on LBC on 20 January (from 1hr 20).

[ab29]

I send multiple emails regarding LTN to Cllr Rose and so have my neighbours - we have received zero responses.

[march46]

Excellent appointment to an important role - Chris Boardman to be the new commissioner for Active Travel England https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/22/walking-cycling-safe-england-mother-driver-travel-strategy?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Has OneDulwich decided to endorse the Tory candidates for the council yet?

[Jenijenjen]

They will. It?s what they?re all about. The LTNs have just acted as a Trojan Horse.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Tbf a Trojan Horse probably counts as active travel so it's nice to see them get in the swing of things

[DulvilleRes]

I'm pretty sure that wooden horse will have a V8 motor purring away hidden behind the casing.