Yummy Mummies

[Pickle]

I agree with BlueOne in terms of pubs in the evenings - on the rare occasion that I do manage to go for a drink in the evening, I certainly don't take baby Pickle with me. Even parents enjoy time without kids occasionally ;-) Although I thought most pubs round here had a "no kids after x o'clock" rule anyway? Apart from maybe the Herne which seems to cater towards families more than others?

[Spangles30]

Bagpuss, where does 'matt' say he hates children and gays?

[Spangles30]

You're lucky you can get out in the evening Pickle!!

[bagpuss78]

Perhaps i was too harsh he doesn't say he hates them just doesn't want to be around them...sorry!

[*Bob*]

Sorry Spangles: you've got the wrong end of my stick entirely.

Matt: I think you're getting mixed-up between getting irritated by a baby in a pub with foolishly having a go at families everywhere just for walking down the street.

Jocelyn: Matt is gay, i believe. My point is that moving to Dulwich and complaining about there being too many prams is akin to moving to Vauxhall and complaining about there being too many gay men.

[bagpuss78]

*bob* It's all so much clearer now! thank you

[Pickle]

Spangles - I think I made it sound too much like I have a social life... actually I think I've been out about 3 times in 16 months! :(

[Domitianus]

I think you will find, Matt, that this is an old theme that has been discussed here many times before and the camps are already thoroughly polarised. I think I was the first person to raise the issue about a year ago and am still picking dagers out of my back.

For the record, I am largely with you on this one and I am also sure that you do not "hate" children (although this is the popular criticism levelled at anyone who suggests children should perhaps be subject to a modicum of control when in public places). I think the issue is boundaries and the fact that many of these Yummy Mummies expect absolute 100% tolerance of their children's right to run riot, scream, shout, bang cutlery etc ANYWHERE THEY PLEASE with no consideration for others. In return, unfortunately, many of the YMs show absolutely no tolerance or respect for those who might find the aforementioned behaviour disturbing. It's about a bit of give and take and, to my mind, in ED a great majority of the YMs take everything they can and give sweet b***er all!

[Doodles]

What does the 18 stand for Matt?

[Spangles30]

Bob, I DID detect the sarcasm in the poor, downtrodden mother comment!!

[Moos]

Domitianus, I would also make a call for tolerance. Live (politely) and let live.

[Spangles30]

LOL Pickles. I don't get out much of an evening either currently!! :(

Domitianus and Matt, there is validity in some of your points. However, "many of these Yummy Mummies expect absolute 100% tolerance of their children's right to run riot, scream, shout, bang cutlery etc ANYWHERE THEY PLEASE with no consideration for others."

In truth, I haven't seen much of the latter, and I am REALLY critical!! Most of the local kids are pretty well behaved in my humble opinion.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Give me a pack of fags any day over poncing about in the park.

[*Bob*]

Christ almighty, if anyone seriously thinks children in Dulwich are badly behaved (above and beyond any laughable 'banging of cutlery' b*llocks) they must be seriously off their rocker.

[Spangles30]

'poncing about in the park'? I take it you are referring to 'power pramming' Peckhamgatecrasher?! Yes it does look very poncey. It doesn't even WORK. The exercises are so slow and daft.

[????]

It's all the middle class 'youths' that get on my nerves - skulking around smoking outside pubs in skinny jeans listening to derived music that was far better 30 years ago and worshipping crack and smack addicted idiots who wear silly hats

[Moos]

Spangles30, if you enjoy going to the gym, good on you. If others enjoy 'powerpramming', why not let them?

[????]

To be honest my toddlers are happier nowadays spending the day watching Cbeebies and wolfing down junk but to keep in the spirit many a staurday I take our double pram out with their dolls in it and loll about on the pavements of SE22 or blocking random shop doors

[Spangles30]

Moos, I am 'letting' them power pram! How am I interfering with their ability to do said activity in the local parks? If they want to do such a thing with their bug-a-boos, let 'em. It doesn't mean I have to agree it is a worthwhile exercise, and it does look daft. It is also expensive at ?5 a time.

[Spangles30]

????, what excellent points you make!!!!

[Domitianus]

Spangles30 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> 'poncing about in the park'? I take it you are

> referring to 'power pramming' Peckhamgatecrasher?!

> Yes it does look very poncey. It doesn't even

> WORK. The exercises are so slow and daft.

But they are ever so POOOWWERRRFFFUULLLLL!!!!

[Moos]

I think you know that I was wondering why you have brought up powerpramming several times in this (non-exercise related) thread. I wasn't envisaging you running round the park tripping up the participants.

Do you have a personal point to make? You are certainly determined to let no opportunity pass to have a go at it.

[BlueOne]

It seems to me that those people vehemently in favour of unconditional child freedom in public places are also demanding unconditional acceptance of *their* right(and by extension their childrens) to live and behave in the way they wish without any consideration of the needs, rights or preferences of those around them.

I don't mean all parents of young children by any means, but the vocal "We will do as we wish, and damn any member of the community whom this may inconvenience" group.

Conversely,they seem to not ackowledge that the "against" group also has a right to live the way *they* think is appropriate,and this might include being uncomfortable or plain old unhappy with the behaviour of people with whom they share their neighbourhood, streets, shops and pubs, and that includes well-heeled mothers and their children.

We live in an urban environment, and as such will find ourselves rubbing up against all sorts who have different lifestyles, behavioural habits and values to our own. I have certainly been at the wrong end of "attitude" in ED from women who seem to think they are the lady of the manor in some posh market town, and whom would receive a very different response than my baffled shock if they tried the same attitude in less gentrified parts of London.

There are all sorts of anti-social behaviour, not all enacted by youths in hoods.

Matt has an equal right to want to live the way he chooses in his community, just as the affluent mums have the right to want to live in their way. Unfortunately balancing everyone's rights means that compromises need to be made by all of us, not aggressive total repudiation of someone's right to an opinion that differs from your own, as I have seen in some responses to Matt's post today.

So maybe we child-free should spare a thought for the parents with their hands full on our streets on the weekends, be more patient and smile. Slow down. Maybe the mums should think about doing shopping at less peak times when the child-free are out of East Dulwich (thats pretty much 8am - 6.30pm Mon-Fri). If the child-free can handle kids in the pub, then maybe the parents can try to control the kids - but if the kids are uncontrolable in that environment, is it fair to bring them in the first place? And finally, for eveyone's sake, in the evenings let's leave pubs for all adults regardless of breeding status.

[ratty]

Maybe the 18 in Mattindulwich18 stands for AH like in Combat 18??? :O

BTW screaming kids in pubs does my head in too and I have got one! If mine starts screaming in a pub we leave so as not to disturb the other punters. That's just manners!

And he's in bed by 6:45pm so we never get to the pub in the evening! :(

[tog_in_sox]

Whilst I'm all in favour of everyone enjoying the locale in the daytime it does peeve when trying to have some quality adult time in the evening one is prevented from doing so by the uncontrolled presence of babies, toddlers and under 10s, and their inconsiderate parents. Granted there may be many parents on this board who are raising wonderful, well-mannered children but you are sadly outnumbered by those without your good fortune and skill.

Was out at gbk last night with a couple of friends for a quiet meal and conversation. Come 8:45pm (that's 20:45 as in quite late in the day really!) a family piles in with 2 children who promptly begin to wail, bang and misbehave. Mothers, no doubt p'd off because they couldn't get childcare, then proceeded to swear, smack children and otherwise ignore the disruption they were causing.

Yummy or not, educated or not, wealthy or not there are far too many parents who now have no ability to establish proper boundaries for their childrens' behaviour or indeed for themselves. This society is far too selfish now to support anything but the kind of slanging match that flared up on this topic.

By the by, I haven't seen any yummies around ED, then again, guess I'm spoilt by all the lovelies and their nannies in SW London. Perhaps you ladies shoud try harder! Better still whip your daddies for more cash to up your bling factor, gym memberships and salon treatments ;P Any mums caring to prove how yummy they are, perhaps in the absence of dad AND kiddies (photo proof is sufficient), please feel free to set up an evening of glamour we can all attend to carouse in adult fashion.

Peace (-out? innit?)