Is that music the Gala festival already?

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

6 hours ago, RichH said:

Whatever I may or may not do, you at least concede that the events, whatever they may be, will limit access to the public highway for emergency service vehicles.  Surely then that's another good reason to not allow such events to take place.

You know what really slows down emergency service drivers? People driving private cars. Surely then that's another good reason not to allow such journeys to take place.

[first mate]

4 hours ago, JohnL said:

Loads (and it was loads) came down through rye lane - I saw them go down and come back up (around 10:30 pm) - so businesses in Peckham get a boost I guess.  The council see the park end of Rye Lane as a nighttime cafe/bar  area too so they all come here after the park event

JohnL possibly crossed wires? I was referring to why the need for an events space on the so-called Dulwich Square/ public highway.

I imagine you thought I was referring to Peckham Rye as an events space? Or maybe, quite correctly, you were bringing the subject of the thread back to Gala?

Anyhow, I guess the issue of whether Dulwich Square should "host" some 15 events per year probably deserves its own thread.

I still hope someone can say how much revenue Southwark gets from Gala and how much of that is used to 'improve' Peckham Rye and specifically in what ways and also which free events will be funded from that revenue over the coming months?

[Spartacus]

1 hour ago, Dogkennelhillbilly said:

You know what really slows down emergency service drivers? People driving private cars. Surely then that's another good reason not to allow such journeys to take place.

Cars can move over to let emergency vehicles through. 

An event on the road on the other hand 🤔

[cohen22]

18 minutes ago, first mate said:

JohnL possibly crossed wires? I was referring to why the need for an events space on the so-called Dulwich Square/ public highway.

I imagine you thought I was referring to Peckham Rye as an events space? Or maybe, quite correctly, you were bringing the subject of the thread back to Gala?

Anyhow, I guess the issue of whether Dulwich Square should "host" some 15 events per year probably deserves its own thread.

I still hope someone can say how much revenue Southwark gets from Gala and how much of that is used to 'improve' Peckham Rye and specifically in what ways and also which free events will be funded from that revenue over the coming months?

All of your posts suggest that you don't want any events at Peckham Rye. Are you okay to promote and partake in 'free events' and what are these? Would you sanction a dog show for instance?

[exdulwicher]

23 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

Cars can move over to let emergency vehicles through. 

An event on the road on the other hand 🤔

There are plenty of videos of ambulances stuck in solid queues of traffic...

You do know that the emergency services are statutory consultees on road closures, yes? That's for all events - the Coronation & Jubilee street parties, Brockwell/Peckham/Dulwich Parks events, bigger things like London Marathon & RideLondon, smaller things like the market on North Cross Road and even more ad-hoc things like demos which may not necessarily be known about but which have fall back options in place.

It's all in there along with response plans, evacuation, safety and emergency protocols for the event itself, access routes... 

Normally you find that response times are quicker during such events. It's a lot easier for a crowd of people to move to the side than it is for a bunch of cars.

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by exdulwicher

[Abe_froeman]

Are southwark good at paying attention to the consultation responses from the emergency services when it comes to closing road for cyclists, like Calton Avenue etc?

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Yes, if you're referring to the Calton Avenue SE21 which, err, emergency vehicles can still freely drive up and down.

[malumbu]

I was involved in planning for the London 2012 Games.  Oh the years of people moaning about it, but two wonderful events - in some respects the paraolympics were even better.  Most of those who moaned, and that included some friends and family, really enjoyed the four weeks or so.  The disruption, in particular to London, was quickly forgotten

Talking about emergencies - the new hazard that we did not need to consider 10 years ago were crowd movements.  In those long off days you didn't get people stopping to check their Whatsapps or other messages, without warning, which can then lead to a crush.  Yes texts did exist but not half the problems you get now with large groups of people and suddenly someone stopping.

 

[AcedOut]

Damn, I missed it. I could hear the music and had no idea what it was!

On 28/05/2023 at 21:27, Nigello said:

A bloke in the Tesco local was mugged (by two males) at the cash point there on Saturday afternoon, according to two staff members. Maybe the festival enticed chancer crims, maybe not…

Which one? East Dulwich Road or Peckham Rye?

[first mate]

8 hours ago, cohen22 said:

All of your posts suggest that you don't want any events at Peckham Rye. Are you okay to promote and partake in 'free events' and what are these? Would you sanction a dog show for instance?

@cohen22

Never had a problem with the small scale events on the Common. They have never involved sectioning of some choice areas of park with ugly, high metal fencing for months, no security guards, little if any damage to the park. 
 

My concern is I can see an agenda for PR to go the way of Brockwell Park, that is extremely large scale events all summer. Those events are not free. It is using the park as a private events space.

[Rockets]

BBC giving this some attention in relation to Brockwell Park events (from around 3 minutes 50 in this clip https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001mqk7/bbc-london-late-news-06062023) and here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c038l8n6ydpo

 

It does seem that residents are being cast aside in the quest for revenue and I suspect the model/scale seen in Brockwell Park is, aspirationally where Southwark probably want to get to for Peckham Rye. The Brockwell Park disruption is on a different scale to Peckham Rye or Dulwich Park and is definitely something that should be avoided - let's hope the council take heed! It would be interesting to know just how much money gets put back into Brockwell Park following those events as I seem to remember, and I might be wrong, that very little, if any, money goes back to Peckham Rye following Gala - didn't the Friends of Peckham Rye kick up a stink about it?

 

 

[first mate]

I am hoping someone is able to let us know about the revenue benefits of Gala specific to Peckham Rye ( and not, I hasten to add, to cut down healthy trees). Also what free events will be funded?

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

14 hours ago, malumbu said:

I was involved in planning for the London 2012 Games. 

I was bah humbug then and I'm bah humbug now about it. An immense amount of public money was sprayed with fire hoses into private pockets, and for what?

"Overall, just 13% [of sports leaders] felt that the whole legacy promise had been delivered with 61% claiming the Games had failed to deliver the promises made. The biggest legacy failures were identified as delivering a sporting and physically active nation and inspiring a generation of young people to create a sporting habit for life."

https://www.sportsthinktank.com/news/2022/07/london-2012-legacy-a-missed-opportunity

 

[malumbu]

Ah such a shame that you feel this way.  Whatever its faults most of us will have fond memories of the Game.  Thinking back we were worried that there would be low attendance at the Paralympic events - how wrong could we have been.  I'm sure we could all pick holes in the Games, but I reckon most will have only fond memories.

My personal experience was being away with two people who moaned about it, but when they saw some of the wonderful opening ceremony were transformed.

I've had a quick look on line about your issues - it may well be misanthropy which I understand can be treated using CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy).  I'm sure that your GP will be able to help.  Others on this site may also have good suggestions.

Here's some more information from the NHS - good luck!

https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/talking-therapies-medicine-treatments/talking-therapies-and-counselling/cognitive-behavioural-therapy-cbt/overview/

 

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

3 minutes ago, malumbu said:

Ah such a shame that you feel this way. 

It's very kind of you to be concerned that it's my gloomy disposition that means I think the Olympic Games was a waste of money. The fact that the overwhelming majority of respondents in the sports industry (who, after all, have more incentive than most to believe in the magic of publicly-funded sportd events) agree with me makes me comfortable that it's not just me being miserable. To be fair, me being a miseryguts is unarguable.

[Penguin68]

15 hours ago, Dogkennelhillbilly said:

The fact that the overwhelming majority of respondents in the sports industry (who, after all, have more incentive than most to believe in the magic of publicly-funded sportd events) agree with me makes me comfortable that it's not just me being miserable.

The respondents in the sports industries were not, in fact, the target audience for the Olympics (why should they believe in the 'magic' of publicly funded sports events, particularly?) - The target audiences(s) were punters who liked to see sports and (more importantly) those influenced by 'soft power' of the UK being able to put on what was, by all other reports, a very effective show, very well staged and managed. Music industry respondents are not, in fact, the target audience for e.g. Glastonbury, as a further example. Did the 2012 Olympics do anything for UK Sports long-term, probably not (even if that was a declared outcome to 'justify' expenditure before the event). Was it a damn good show - yes.

For the Gala, and future events, you need to focus on what the underlying outcome is meant to be - which, frankly, is revenue to the Council, regardless of the feelings or cares of those who mistakenly thought, because they lived 'next' to it, that it was in someway 'their' park. We, and the park, exist to be a revenue source to the council - we (and the park) are their chattels, to be be squeezed dry for dosh. Simples. As has been said by council sympathisers - if you don't like the way the council operates, p*ss off out of here; we don't want your sort here.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

5 hours ago, Penguin68 said:

 (why should they believe in the 'magic' of publicly funded sports events, particularly?)

Because their paycheques depend on it. Did you read the article?

There was a huge amount of bullshit talked before 2012 about the "legacy" and why that justified so much public money being spent on something so apparently insubstantial. Ten years on, and the results are in: it was all bullshit, and the money was wasted on insubstantial crap. We could have built a lot of schools for that money.

[fishboy]

Apologies for dragging this thread back to Gala, and for being late to the party (I was away for half-term with family) but would like to make my observations, for what they're worth.

My issues have always been with the private annexing of the best part of a public park at the best time of the year for three weeks, the thoughtless & careless actions of many of the festival goers, the impact on wildlife, and the damage & littering left behind afterwards. I have nothing against the festival per se, it's just clearly in the wrong location.

Being probably one of the closest residents to the site, I thought the noise was just about tolerable. A sound engineer regularly came to take measurements outside our property, and contacted the mixing desk(s) if & when the levels were above thresholds, which was reassuring. The most annoying noise for us was from the diesel(?) generators for two large refrigeration units which were left running 24h a day from the Weds onwards - a constant background hum which sounded like a digger / tractor running at 1000rpm. The organisers hadn't considered the impact of this at all, and admitted there was nothing they could do.

Another annoyance which hadn't been considered was the light pollution from the many floodlights left on all night, which effectively lit up our front rooms (we're on the second floor so don't need curtains...).

The organisers had assured residents that toilets & extra bins would be installed on the route through the park to the entrance. I happened to be going through the area an hour or so after it had opened on the Friday afternoon and there were no toilets, no extra bins. Unsurprisingly there was a huge amount of discarded alcohol containers all along the route, and many people ducking into the bushes to relieve themselves. It was depressing to see young children playing in & around these same bushes, as they always do on their way back from school, presumably brushing through & stepping on urine etc. When approached about these issues, the site manager said the bins & toilets were being delivered / on their way, but the damage had already been done.

Gala is no longer a small event, and having been run for several years now these types of issues just shouldn't be happening - there is no excuse, but it would appear there is also no comeback or sanctions to enforce improvements. It's also not a 'community event', however much they try to spin the benefits to local businesses / artists etc. It is a money making venture and the park is just a necessary resource to them.

I can't see any justification for extending the annexing and increasing the disruption to enable the organisers to make more money under the guise of providing a beneficial service to the local community.

[Cyclemonkey]

So we were given some last minute free tickets for Pub in the Park last night so I am able to offer some comparison.

It is clearly smaller than Gala and a very different proposition, a much older and wealthier crowd.  It wasn't full at all last night, I would say about 2/3 capacity, if that.  Everyone we spoke to also seemed to be there on some sort of freebie like us!

It was very well organised, decent amount of bars and toilets, lots of bins and litter pickers, well manged exit at the end of the night (we did see a few men peeing in the park bushes on the way out).

It wasn't as loud as Gala as there was hardly any music (and tbf what there was,  was pretty terrible - the main act was like a second rate wedding band).

I would say it definitely has less impact on the local area in terms of noise and crowds than Gala but (and perhaps I am biased) in terms of imteresting cultural contribution to the area it lagged well behind Gala.  Gala presented three days of really interesting contemporary dance music and Jazz from across genres.  Pub in the Park is a bit of a bland corporate fest  - tired music and a lot of very big anodyne brands - in some places it felt more like an industry trade show than a festival.

 

 

Edited June 10, 2023 by Cyclemonkey
Typo

[malumbu]

Fishboy, Cyclemonkey, thanks for your objective and well laid out thoughts, presenting different perspectives.  This is what a forum should be like.  Anti-social behaviour is a national (probably global issue) as is as much for society to address, in addition to those putting on events and those agencies enforcing law and order.  I expect most of us have done something wrong in our lives, I've certainly had a few silly incidents in the past I am not proud of.

I'm pleased that I didn't go to the pub in the park, it didn't appeal to me and I am a tight ass in any case so my events are free or low price.  I was working at the Lambeth County Show last year in sweltering heat, topped by seeing the old UK soul band Heatwave at the end.  Too hot for me today.

[first mate]

1 hour ago, Cyclemonkey said:

So we were given some last minute free tickets for Pub in the Park last night so I am able to offer some comparison.

It is clearly smaller than Gala and a very different proposition, a much older and wealthier crowd.  It wasn't full at all last night, I would say about 2/3 capacity, if that.  Everyone we spoke to also seemed to be there on some sort of freebie like us!

It was very well organised, decent amount of bars and toilets, lots of bins and litter pickers, well manged exit at the end of the night (we did see a few men peeing in the park bushes on the way out).

It wasn't as loud as Gala as there was hardly any music (and tbf what there was,  was pretty terrible - the main act was like a second rate wedding band).

I would say it definitely has less impact on the local area in terms of noise and crowds than Gala but (and perhaps I am biased) in terms of imteresting cultural contribution to the area it lagged well behind Gala.  Gala presented three days of really interesting contemporary dance music and Jazz from across genres.  Pub in the Park is a bit of a bland corporate fest  - tired music and a lot of very big anodyne brands - in some places it felt more like an industry trade show than a festival.

 

 

In terms of music Gala definitely better, it is a music festival and PITP is not.

If it were literally only a matter of three days that Gala caused upheaval and sectioning off of the park, I doubt there would be the objections there have been. It is the matter of huge fences, lack of access, a change to the feel of the park for a month in the best weeks of summer that is the problem. As Fishboy also mentioned, weeks of generator noise and floodlights is just not acceptable or ecologically friendly.

Edited June 10, 2023 by first mate

[Cyclemonkey]

Ah well I have no interest in debating whether Gala should or should not happen. 

I just came to report my two different experiences of the events as they had been compared on here.  That is all.

[Earl Aelfheah]

On 10/06/2023 at 08:27, Cyclemonkey said:

Everyone we spoke to also seemed to be there on some sort of freebie like us!

I also went there on a freebie, so you may be right!

[Rockets]

Cyclemonkey - I think your assessment is spot on about impact to the local community and environment when comparing the two. I do wonder if Pub in the Park was struggling this year - I haven't met anyone who has paid for a ticket over the years who said they would go back and a lot of people were given free tickets.

There were a lot of people taking advantage of the free music in the park without paying for admission - good for them I say as at those prices I am surprised anyone actually paid to get in.

[Cyclemonkey]

We went to Lambeth Country Show this weekend just gone.

It was great as always but interesting as Lambeth Council reused a lot of the infrastructure from the festivals held in Brockwell Park in previous weekends.

The better quality was noticable in terms of toilets, washing facilities, marquees and seating areas.  The sound for various stages was also better quality.

I understand using this for free drastically reduced the cost of the Country Show for Lambeth - so a big benefit for locals.