Increase in Lime Bikes on LL

[Earl Aelfheah]

I suspect the through traffic ceased in the 60's or 70's speaking to my dad, but not sure.

[first mate]

Over the years I remember a time when the odd car drove around the park, usually with an elderly person inside. I do not recall it ever being used as a cut through and if it was those instances would be vanishingly rare.

In my experience Dulwich Park has always been used as a park and only a park, oh and also a place to exercise police horses. Don't know if the local riding school still gets out on the sand route.

Anyway, relevance to this Lime Bike thread is pretty much zero, other than to observe that the fastest 'traffic' through the park these days is from cycling commuters, who do use it as a cut through. Sadly, many do not observe the 5mph, which though not legally obliged to we might agree that as a courtesy to others, they should.

 

Edited September 25, 2024 by first mate

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

27 minutes ago, first mate said:

I do not recall it ever being used as a cut through and if it was those instances would be vanishingly rare.

I've seen a delivery van, 2 PHVs and multiple Deliveroo motorcyclists...just this year! 

[alice]

Itwasafter1985 definitely. 

[Rockets]

1 hour ago, Dogkennelhillbilly said:

I've seen a delivery van, 2 PHVs and multiple Deliveroo motorcyclists...just this year! 

I have seen a delivery van too - delivering to the cafe in the middle of the park - hardly using it as a cut-through....

 

I have also seen cars with wheelchairs parking in the places for cars with wheelchairs because, you know, people in wheelchairs often find it difficult to get to and from parks and therefore are afforded special permission to park their car with wheelchairs in the park....are we supposed to stop that now too....?

 

I am finding it incredible that someone is trying to suggest that Dulwich Park was a major thoroughfare in the 1960s....that it was a "rat run".....

 

 

[Spartacus]

I vividly remember being driven through the park from the village side to the south circular circa 1980 /1981 it wasn't a rat run bit was used by cars who wanted a scenic drive 

Not sure whwn that was stopped but it was akin to driving through Richmond park 

Edited September 25, 2024 by Spartacus

[march46]

 

[personannrose]

Does anyone know what year the planters at the junction of Frank Dixon Way and the South Circular were installed to prevent through traffic?

Edited September 25, 2024 by personannrose
Clarity

[first mate]

Sorry, I don't know. 
 

In answer to March, can we stick to the subject of Lime bikes please? If you want to start a new thread on local driving issues in the 60's and 70's, go ahead.

Do people here think that cyclists should stick to around 5mph when using the park as a cut through for the daily commute? Do you support using the park for velodrome type speed cycling and if so, why?

3 hours ago, Dogkennelhillbilly said:

I've seen a delivery van, 2 PHVs and multiple Deliveroo motorcyclists...just this year! 

Rather disingenuous post, motorcyclists are on two wheels;  not cars. 

As Rockets pointed out, you see delivery vans for the cafe and also vehicles for park maintenance and upkeep- hardly rat run material.

As I say elsewhere, e-bikes and cyclists are the ones currently using Dulwich Park as a cut through.

[malumbu]

Daft trying to enforce a 5mph speed limit, you'd have to ticket runners too.  Haven't you had enough of looking for every reason to criticise cyclists?  Bike hire is a great concept, obviously a few rough edges to sort out.  Cycling has numerous benefits, a few cyclists do things that upset you.  There are worse things in life. 

Back to the suggestion, how would you enforce an unenforceable speed limit?

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

9 hours ago, first mate said:

Rather disingenuous post, motorcyclists are on two wheels;  not cars. 

As Rockets pointed out, you see delivery vans for the cafe and also vehicles for park maintenance and upkeep- hardly rat run material.

ooooooOOOOooooOOooooHHhhhh

Nope, these were all trying to cut through from College Rd to Court Lane - they drove through the inner gate (which I think is being replaced, finally), along the pathway to the Court Lane gates, and then realised their mistake. 50/50 on whether they then squeezed through the bollards across the pavement or backtracked.

I think it's more a case of the drivers "seeing" the surface on a GPS and trying to outsmart the route they've been told to take. I dont think it happens very often - bollards are pretty effective at traffic management, and one of the PHVs was let through by poor traffic management after one of the events.

[Rockets]

10 hours ago, malumbu said:

Back to the suggestion, how would you enforce an unenforceable speed limit?

I once got stopped in Battersea Park whilst cycling by a Parks Police officer who tried to issue a PCN for cycling on the riverside walk (which I, at the time, had no idea cycling was not allowed on and actually successfully argued that there was no signage to inform people of such). Parks Police aren't police they are council employees dressed up as police.

 

Given the high level of crimes in and around the park maybe the council could repurpose some of the traffic wardens they have flocking to the area to wander around the park to both provide a visual deterrent to those in the park up to no good (especially around school chuck out time) and they could also remind fast cyclists of their need to slow down (not many at all adhere to the 5pm limit in the park). So many people I know hate walking in the park (especially around school drop off and pick-up time) for fear of them or their dogs being hit by cyclists - the two most worrying sounds in the park are the hum of a Lime bike approaching from behind at great speed or the bone-shaker banging of a school  drop-off cargo bike hurtling up behind you. A couple of weeks ago I saw the aftermath of a coming together of a Lime bike and a small child on a scooter (but didn't see the accident happen so cannot comment on who was in the wrong).

 

Maybe there is also an argument (like that in Battersea Park) that cyclists should have to walk in the areas most used by pedestrians or the areas where large numbers of pedestrians congregate.

[first mate]

Quite. If there is a pressing need to pedestrianise and 'green' road space, there is arguably a precedent for pedestrianising park space, including tarmac areas within. I would make an exception for the horses.

[raptortruckman69]

That's such a cyclist attitude: you were breaking the law then harassed the guy until he let you off. Then try and paint yourself as the good guy.

 

If anyone needed anymore evidence that cyclists are scofflaws with double standards, then here it is.

[first mate]

Just to be clear, a number of us with reservations about local LTNs etc are not anti cyclist. On the contrary we are also cyclists. 

[Earl Aelfheah]

20 hours ago, march46 said:

 

Thanks, that's interesting. I had a feeling it must have been late 60's / early 70's.

[first mate]

Wrong thread Earl, this is about Lime Bikes not Dulwich Park in the 60's. But as a serial deflector and derailer (hope you appreciate my little cycling pun) perhaps you could change gears and start a separate thread on your other passion - cars in Dulwich in the 60's and 70's, and please take March with you.

Seriously, stop it!

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

22 hours ago, first mate said:

can we stick to the subject of Lime bikes please?

...

Do you support using the park for velodrome type speed cycling and if so, why?

🤣🤣🤣

 

[first mate]

Well do you or don't you? And, Lime biking commuters are almost certainly going to be travelling at speeds well over what is recommended.

[malumbu]

Have you ridden a Lime Bike without the motor running.  Very heavy, so can't see them going much over 14mph.  What is recommended speed in any case?  I can keep up with traffic on the flat 20mph and I am no spring chicken.  They are doing twice that at the velodrome, very exciting, come on down!

[first mate]

If you want to speed cycle get on a 30mph plus road or go to a velodrome.

My view is that on dual purpose paths ie those with dedicated cycle paths, cyclists should still proceed with caution, on paths that are not dual use unless deserted, cyclists should dismount and walk, in the park cyclists should proceed with caution and not exceed 5mph, if lots of pedestrians they probably should consider dismounting and walking. Paths and Parks are spaces where pedestrians take precedence, in my view. I would make an exception for mobility scooters.

Edited September 27, 2024 by first mate

[Earl Aelfheah]

11 hours ago, first mate said:

Well do you or don't you? And, Lime biking commuters are almost certainly going to be travelling at speeds well over what is recommended.

What's 'recommended'? 

[first mate]

Earl, obviously you did not read my last post, here it is again below; top tip 'recommended' in DP is 5mph, but you already know that with your extensive reading around DP and traffic. Elsewhere road speeds are generally indicated, on paths that do not have dedicated cycle ways, I believe cyclists should dismount and push."

"

• Member
• •  4.2k

Posted 3 hours ago (edited)

If you want to speed cycle get on a 30mph plus road or go to a velodrome.

My view is that on dual purpose paths ie those with dedicated cycle paths, cyclists should still proceed with caution, on paths that are not dual use unless deserted, cyclists should dismount and walk, in the park cyclists should proceed with caution and not exceed 5mph, if lots of pedestrians they probably should consider dismounting and walking. Paths and Parks are spaces where pedestrians take precedence, in my view. I would make an exception for mobility scooters.

 

[Spartacus]

Interesting to see this article which shows a marked England wide drop in cycling usage. Whilst in London I suspect the numbers are still relatively high, there does appear to be a problem with the dream. 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/2024/11/06/how-the-great-cycling-boom-collapsed-lockdown/

[first mate]

Watching scrutiny sessions is the best way of determining what might happen. Southwark do have concerns about Lime and these have been articulated in meetings, but Lime are holding out one big fat carrot, which is funding infrastructure for hybrid use. It's going to be hard for the cash-strapped council -allegedly, except when it's Vanity Square and its Indian import paving- to turn that offer down.