Fibre Finally?

[Patron]

Noticed orange suited workmen in unmarked vans installing cables along Lordship Lane near Dulwich Library, some parts of Court Lane and a few other surrounding roads, and I see that the Dulwich Telephone Exchange has some traffic cones with an Openreach sign. Anyone know if this area is finally getting fibre, been waiting over 7 years. Openreach website states between now and December 2026! What a joke.

[Penguin68]

Operatives were checking BT man holes (cable chambers) along my length of Underhill last week and confirmed they were checking cable ducts were clear for blown fibre, and that this would provide FTTP. He also said that they were not planning, at the moment, to switch off the analogue signal locally (yet). It is the analogue signal that carries PSTN services - digital voice is packet switched.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Penguin68

[Rockets]

From very painful experience just because they have fibre in the pavement doesn't mean it will be easy to get it to the home. We placed our order for fibre in September of last year after receiving an email from BT saying it is available on our street and we are still waiting, some 7 months later, for OpenReach to connect the bit from the street to the house as the old copper that connects to most houses needs to be replaced and Openreach are utterly incompetent. They have sent numerous engineers all of whom failed to complete the job. And when I look at Trustpilot it seems the majority of people have the same issue - BT take the order for fibre, Openreach fail to connect and then BT says..not our fault it's Openreach who can't do it. I think BT are under government pressure to connect as many homes as possible so are taking the orders for Fibre knowing full well they can't get people connected - our BT bill shows we have had fibre since when we placed the order (yet we are not being billed for it) yet still no sign of when we will actually be connected.

Same issues with Sky apparently as Openreach are the only company who do the connections and cannot keep up with demand due to their lack of trained engineers.

[ianr]

Rockets, what are they providing for you at the moment, FTTC or ADSL?  If FTTC, was that an upgrade?

PS: A search on "FTTP blocked duct" helps expose the likely problem.  Here for example is one extract from a Sky forum:

"Our metre of in-pavement duct was delayed by over a month just to get paperwork back from the local authority and a power company (because it went past a lamp post).  If it had to cross the road, several more months would have been likely." https://helpforum.sky.com/t5/Broadband/How-long-to-clear-blocked-duct/td-p/4248704

I'm not even sure where my own copper connection emerges from the garden.  Must have a look.

Edited April 27, 2023 by ianr
Additional information

[Rockets]

The current connection is ADSL and apparently, in some cases, they can get the fibre connection to a home via the old copper cable run from the street but for a lot of victorian houses the old cable run is too small or degraded for the fibre so they have to re-route it and bury it somewhere else. One of the engineers said that the problem is happening a lot in the Dulwich area due to the older houses and only a specialised Openreach engineer can run the new buried cable so we have a fibre box/landing point in the pavement in front of our house, a fibre box on the outside of the house and are wating for the specialised Openreach engineer to run the cable from the pavement box to the house box via our front garden.....and we are waiting...and waiting...and waiting...and waiting.

 

Openreach keeps heralding the number of houses they "pass" with fibre connection but that just refers to the pavement having fibre running to the and from the cabinet...the big challenge is the last mile and getting the fibre cable to the front of the house and Openreach is really struggling with that element.

[Patron]

Thanks all for the responses. I feel your pain and expect many more years of suffering with ADSL 🥵

[redpost]

Also in action today on Elmwood road and Beckwith road pulling cable and installing the block terminals on top of the telegraph poles.

Also dug up a length of half moon lane pavement to put down some new ducting.

If you think openreach are bad then try virgin media.

 

[Rockets]

So a day was booked for Openreach to do the final part of the install after months and months of delays.

 

"Will they definitely be able to do it?" I said to the person on the phone booking it in.

"Yes, they are one of our engineers who is specially trained to do the work", they replied

The engineer arrived. Took one look and said:

"I am not able to do this work as I am not trained to do it!"

And so the saga of no-fibre continues!

The engineer did say that this comedy of errors happens at almost every property he visits in the area.

[Bic Basher]

There are three versions of fibre.    The one that most have is FTTC (Fibre to the Cabinet) where the fibre cable is connected to a green box in the street with the last part of the journey using the existing copper line.  The closer you are to a green box, the faster your connection is.   (There is also a faster version of FTTC called GFast where you also plug another converter alongside your existing modem)

FTTB - (Fibre to the building) is what is offered in blocks of flats. A junction box is installed on the side of the building with cables running to the individual flats outside which means they have to drill a hole to feed it through.   This service is usually offered by the likes of Hyperoptic and Community Fibre in ED.  Openreach will also offer this in flats I believe.

FTTH - (Fibre to the premises) which is offered by Openreach on behalf of Sky and BT etc and other companies if they've laid their own fibre cable.   As mentioned, it goes directly to your home and can be the most complex fibre installation.   If you've ever had Virgin installed in your house, they may have to dig up outside your home.

How is Full Fibre installed? | BT Help

The plan is eventually to scrap ADSL and FTTC, so that every home is connected either by FTTB or FTTP giving customers the fastest possible download speeds.   By 2025, the copper telephone network will be scrapped if you're on the Openreach network, which means you'll have to connect your landline phone to a RJ45 port on an internet router.  This has the negative impact that when the power goes off, your landline will no longer work during cuts.

If you already have Virgin or Hyperoptic/Community Fibre, you're not affected.

[Rockets]

At this rate I will be overjoyed if I am on the Openreach fibre network by 2025! At this rate I am not convinced I will ever be! 😉

[Penguin68]

12 hours ago, Bic Basher said:

FTTH - (Fibre to the premises)

Fibre to the Home (FTTH) and Fibre to the Premises (FTTP) are the same thing, I believe, FTTP now being the term most commonly used

[Penguin68]

12 hours ago, Bic Basher said:

By 2025, the copper telephone network will be scrapped if you're on the Openreach network, which means you'll have to connect your landline phone to a RJ45 port on an internet router.  This has the negative impact that when the power goes off, your landline will no longer work during cuts.

If you already have Virgin or Hyperoptic/Community Fibre, you're not affected.

PSTN (Public Switched Telephone Network) services are analogue - and end-to-end - whereas Digital services are packet switched. It is technically easier to move voice over analogue, but it makes no practical sense to operate two types of network services, once sufficient digital (packet switched) traffic is being generated. This is assisted by former analogue broadcast services moving to digital over e.g. fibre.

The analogue voice service provided over copper is/ was powered from telephone exchanges, which hold large batteries (with diesel generator back-up) in case of power outages to the exchange, which allows almost continuous country-wide voice telephone services. Once you move to packet switched services the routing of packets (and the way you power home installations now (eventually)  linked by glass fibres and not copper wires) means that you can no longer power from the exchange. This was why, when they still had the opportunity, customers maintained their BT PSTN analogue lines - firstly because packet voice, at the start of cable TV provision, was poor (indeed non-existent), and secondly because of the 'always on' nature of the PSTN. 

As noted above, the removal of exchange powered voice services is the one, and quite significant, downside to the move to a fibred technical economy. Any long-term power cuts (where mobiles will also lose stored power) will have a significant impact on lives in an effected locale. Remember that last winter mains power was lost to some communities for close to a week. That will in future mean they may be wholly cut-off from communication to the 'outside'.

[Penguin68]

Contractors for Openreach are pulling fibre today down Underhill Road (south end) - the guy I spoke to said they had now completed fibre installation (street side duct) in Forest Hill. So the main delivery infrastructure for FTTP will be in place - but the wait time for individual household connexion to be enabled (which may be offered in 4-6 weeks for order) is still a moot point of course. For those who want it, fingers crossed!

[redpost]

On 12/05/2023 at 11:06, Penguin68 said:

PSTN (Public Switched Telephone Network) services are analogue - and end-to-end - whereas Digital services are packet switched. It is technically easier to move voice over analogue, but it makes no practical sense to operate two types of network services, once sufficient digital (packet switched) traffic is being generated. This is assisted by former analogue broadcast services moving to digital over e.g. fibre.

The analogue voice service provided over copper is/ was powered from telephone exchanges, which hold large batteries (with diesel generator back-up) in case of power outages to the exchange, which allows almost continuous country-wide voice telephone services. Once you move to packet switched services the routing of packets (and the way you power home installations now (eventually)  linked by glass fibres and not copper wires) means that you can no longer power from the exchange. This was why, when they still had the opportunity, customers maintained their BT PSTN analogue lines - firstly because packet voice, at the start of cable TV provision, was poor (indeed non-existent), and secondly because of the 'always on' nature of the PSTN. 

As noted above, the removal of exchange powered voice services is the one, and quite significant, downside to the move to a fibred technical economy. Any long-term power cuts (where mobiles will also lose stored power) will have a significant impact on lives in an effected locale. Remember that last winter mains power was lost to some communities for close to a week. That will in future mean they may be wholly cut-off from communication to the 'outside'.

There are battery backup solutions available, I believe openreach will supply a 1 hour backup unit to vulnerable customers:

https://www.bt.com/help/landline/fibre-home-phone-service--questions-about-the-battery-back-up-un

You can buy a UPS that will provide for longer periods

I think those who lost power for a week are in extreme rural areas, and having a couple of fully charged battery packs for a mobile is well recognised practice, A spare nokia dumb phone would also be prudent as they have battery life of a couple of weeks, use in conjunction with a couple of large usb batteries would give you a couple of months.

 

[redpost]

22 hours ago, Penguin68 said:

Contractors for Openreach are pulling fibre today down Underhill Road (south end) - the guy I spoke to said they had now completed fibre installation (street side duct) in Forest Hill. So the main delivery infrastructure for FTTP will be in place - but the wait time for individual household connexion to be enabled (which may be offered in 4-6 weeks for order) is still a moot point of course. For those who want it, fingers crossed!

If you're fed from a telegraph pole then obviously things are a lot easier and you're install can usually be done in a few hours with one visit. 

This site: https://bidb.uk/ shows you all the council work notices (obstruction of pavements/roads) by telecoms companies around your postcode, you can see the various works they are doing like laying new ducts, desilting and clearing blockages for the trunks and customer connections.

 

[Sue]

I'm a bit confused by all this.

I'm with Plusnet, and to the best of my knowledge I have had fibre for ages. 

Am I missing something here?  

ETA: Sorry, as you were. Apparently I can upgrade to a different kind of fibre. Duh 🙄

Edited May 23, 2023 by Sue
Adding more information