.

[Thudnut]

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[mynamehere]

james.barber@southwark.gov.uk

07900 227366

Liberal Democrat Councillor for East Dulwich Ward

[www.jamesbarber.org.uk]

[twitter.com]

[DJKillaQueen]

You will be able to find out who owns the land from the land registry.

[Fuschia]

It's college ward I think

[Siduhe]

Which end of Melford Road? If the Wood Vale end, where the chain link gates are, as far as I can see from the Property Search function, it's not registered land.

[Siduhe]

If College, then I've dealt with Lewis Robinson (one of the councillors for that ward) in the past and he was really helpful.

[UncleBen]

If they're setting fires call the councils nuisance team

[the-e-dealer]

Get the wicker out

[simonethebeaver]

All three of the College ward councillors are very good. The others are Andy Simmons and Helen Hayes.

[MirandaAshby]

I happen to know one of the men you seem to be referring to. I am shocked you make the assumption that they are travellers simply because they are Irish. Seems like racial stereotyping to me.

[Vik]

I didn't read that as racial stereotyping at all, aside from you being the only one to mention they were Irish, the OP was just speculating that the men may have wanted to clear the land to live on it - why else would one clear the land, lie about it and then run from the fire brigade?

If you know the man MirandaAsby perhaps you know what he was up too?

[edw]

"why else would one clear the land, lie about it and then run from the fire brigade?"

It's feasible that someone clearing the land and burning vegetation for legitimate reasons could be panicked into scarpering and then denying responsibility if the fire brigade turn up. Nobody wants to get in trouble with the authorities.

But I agree, the OP did not mention race and it's a bit of a stretch to assume that's what the allusion to "travellers" was based on.

[UncleBen]

Yeah, why set illegal fires and run off? Knowing a murderer, for example, does not make the murderer not a murderer

[JohnL]

Sorry, dontnunderstand that

If you're working for a legal company you refer the police to them

If you are burning illegally then yes, scarper.

Can't see another scenario, like you check before setting fires always or arson is a risk.

Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "why else would one clear the land, lie about it

> and then run from the fire brigade?"

>

> It's feasible that someone clearing the land and

> burning vegetation for legitimate reasons could be

> panicked into scarpering and then denying

> responsibility if the fire brigade turn up.

> Nobody wants to get in trouble with the

> authorities.

>

> But I agree, the OP did not mention race and it's

> a bit of a stretch to assume that's what the

> allusion to "travellers" was based on.

[MirandaAshby]

Vik wrote

> why else would one clear the land, lie about

> it and then run from the fire brigade?

What makes you assume they were lying, from what I understand they do indeed want to clear the area for storage, exactly what was said to the OP.

The police were "not interested" because they came, spoke to the correct people (not the sub contractors) and were satisfied everything was above board.

My racial stereotyping comment was made because the OP knew these men to be Irish from speaking to them and jumped to the conclusion they were travellers. I agree he did not mention it in his comment but I still believe he was stereotyping, would he have thought that if they had a different accent. My opinion, of course.

[sillywoman]

I think you're jumping to huge conclusions here MirandaAshby - addding 2 + 2 to make 5. Whilst I appreciate that you may think you're defending your friend or acquaintance, you seem to have missed the OP's preposition that the group were 'possible' travellers. The OP may not be an English national themselves, or they may have hearing issues, they may not be able to distinguish an Irish accent from a Scottish or Welsh or Cockney one? As you have yourself pointed out it's dangerous to make assumptions. It's ironic that you are doing exactly that which you accuse the OP of.

[LadyDeliah]

I reckon the OP's thought processes went like this:

Clearing wasteland;

Irish Accents;

Ran from authorities = must be travellers wanting to live there.

It seems she's the one with the dodgy adding up.

[the-e-dealer]

Get Alan whicker out

[glasshalffull]

Mirandaasby wrote,

'My racial stereotyping comment was made because the OP knew these men to be Irish from speaking to them and jumped to the conclusion they were travellers. I agree he did not mention it in his comment but I still believe he was stereotyping, would he have thought that if they had a different accent. My opinion, of course.'

The majority of travellers have Irish accents, I would imagine this has something to do with their Irish heritage. Of course the OP wouldn't have thought they were travellers if they didn't have Irish accents, why would or should he?

LadyDeliah wrote,

'I reckon the OP's thought processes went like this:

Clearing wasteland;

Irish Accents;

Ran from authorities = must be travellers wanting to live there.

It seems she's the one with the dodgy adding up.'

The OP has the screen name of Clive27A I assumed this meant they were male, or am I gender stereotyping?

Give the OP a break they had a genuine concern, as would the majority of people that people may be moving onto land that was not theirs to be on. And previous experience shows that people who use land that does not belong to them to live on do not leave it in the same condition as they found it, whatever their race, ethnicity, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

[DJKillaQueen]

Then why write possible 'travellers' in the title, when possible 'tresspassers' would have been more appropriate. I'm sorry but Lady D is right on this occasion. The OP heard Irish accents and jumped to a 'possible' conclusion based on that.

[uncleglen]

If they were legitimate sub-contractors they would have had paperwork?

[glasshalffull]

Trespassers don't tend to clear areas of land to inhabit. Lady Delilah may well be right about the thought process of the OP only the OP would know this but what is wrong with that thought process?

Clearing wasteland

Non Irish accents

Ran away from authorities = something dodgy going on.

The problem with attacking the OP for the use of a single word which they actually preceded with the word possible is that you lose sight of what was happening was suspicious.

And lets not forget the Fire Brigade had to attend this incident, lets hope their attendance at this incident didn't result in the death or injury of someone who really required their help.

[stacey-lyn]

I may have missed something here but where does the OP mention accents, "Irish" or otherwise? This may or may not be the case but I fail to see it and those assumptions have been made by others. There are plenty of English & Eastern European 'travellers'* in Southwark (*if indeed that's who these men are).

Edited to add asterisk.

[oimissus]

I have also read the OP several times, and can see no mention of accent, Irish or otherwise. Nor can I see that's he's edited his post. So it seems miranda is the only one making huge assumptions and chucking unfounded accusations of racial stereotyping about. They could have been English travellers or Roma from anywhere in Europe, for all you know, if indeed they are travellers.

[Penguin68]

As has already been noted, ?travellers? tend to come in three flavours, of which the Roma (Romanies, Gypsies) are the oldest group, probably originating from north-western India, and mistaken for Egyptians (Gypsies) in England when they arrived, partly at least because some entered Europe via Spain from North Africa. The second group were itinerant Irish metal workers (mainly tin smithing) hence their descriptive (and later pejorative) name of tinkers. (There is also a similar tradition for travelling smiths of Scottish origins). The final group emerged in the 1960s and 70s as New Age travellers, adopting a hippy and anarchist life-style, often associated with summer festivals. (The term didicoy, by the way, is used by Roma to describe people who have adopted a similar life-style but are not of full-blood Roma origin. It is considered offensive when not used by Roma, and is probably often intended offensively when used by them).

It seems most unlikely that there is any attempt here to 'hi-jack' land for traveller use - it is more likely that the men, of whatever origin, were being paid to clear land for the reason they described, but may (by setting fires) have been trying to short-cut the work and ran-off, if they did, because they were going beyond their brief. It is possible, if the land was not clearly owned, that someone hoped to exploit that by making use of it, but that this person was, or was linked to, any of the travelling communities seems pure conjecture without proof.

'miranda' - who was the one who said that she knew one of the men, and as Irish, was not unreasonable in suggesting that the OP, who must also have heard the accents, had drawn an erronous conclusion from this - the OP didn't have to have mentioned the accent specifically in their post for this assumption to be made by miranda, who knew the man did have an Irish accent.