Child hit by car (she's fine), Lordship lane with upland

[LadyDeliah]

Sorry dude, I was taking the piss.

[DJKillaQueen]

No problem. It's all good :)

[mynamehere]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2324754/Girl-11-dies-hospital-collision-lorry-south-London.html?ico=home%5Eheadlines

Here's the very latest person killed by a driver in London.

This morning I saw 2 adults with 8 children try to cross LsL at Upland Rd. Not a single driver slowed down on either side of the Island. An absurd imagine of this island of humans and a sea of traffic.

[DJKillaQueen]

Whilst I don't doubt your account regarding drivers, I would also say that island is not designed as a crossing point for that many people....what were they doing crossing there instead of using a more appropriate crossing point?

[mynamehere]

Today's Southwark News reported this and added that the incident had not been reported to the police. Not good. This should have been reported to the local Safer Neighbourhood Team: SNT Mick Bell [email protected]

Upland Rd is pretty much between the 2 safe crossings possibly 500m each way. That's a lot for anyone to walk out of their way. Upland Rd has a bus stop on each side. People cross at bus stops. Court Lane enters LsL on a rather steep hill with drivers concerned about joining fast moving traffic and not looking at anything else. Goodrich School is down Upland Rd and St Anthony's is down Friern. This area is loaded with children.

To answer a message above, yes I agree with you, the correct placement for a safe crossing is Friern. Friern's not just off a bend, gives better vision and Friern is a wider road at its junction with LsL and at the same time less used which will give more space for all the different manoeuvres of drivers and pedestrians and cyclists.

[mynamehere]

This just came through on the subject of shared roads:

I am delighted to invite you to a seminar that I am hosting to discuss Cyclists and the Law in London?s Living Room, City Hall, London, SE1 2AA on Wednesday 22nd May from 6.30pm to 9pm. The event will aim to identify steps that the police, TfL, cyclists and others can take to reduce the number of deaths and casualties on our roads.

The seminar will feature short speeches from four prominent figures within London?s cycling community:

Andrew Gilligan, the Mayor?s Cycling Commissioner, will explain his role and his and the Mayor?s work at City Hall

Detective Chief Superintendent Scott Wilson, Metropolitan Police, will introduce some of the challenges the police face when dealing with cases involving cyclists and the law and how these challenges are handled

Kevin O?Sullivan, Levenes Cycling Injury Lawyer, will comment on his experience of assisting cyclists in London with legal problems

Darren Johnson AM will provide an overview of the Assembly Transport Committee?s work on cycling

These will be followed by an open discussion.

Findings from the seminar will inform a series of recommendations to be included an updated version of my 2007 report ?London?s Lawless Roads?, to be published in June 2013. The original report can be accessed here: http://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/archives/assembly-members-jonesj-docs-lawlessroad_report.pdf

If you are able to attend, please RSVP by Monday 20th May. Please complete the attached form and send it by email to [email protected]

City Hall is fully accessible for disabled guests. Please let us know if you have any particular access requirements. If you are unable to attend, please feel free to pass this invitation to a colleague to attend in your place. Refreshments will be served from 6pm.

I very much hope to see you on the 22nd May, and to hear your views and ideas on this important topic.

Yours sincerely,

Jenny Jones AM

Green Party Member of the London Assembly

Reply Form For

Seminar hosted by Jenny Jones AM: Cyclists and the Law

Wednesday 22nd May, 6.30pm-9pm*

London?s Living Room

City Hall

The Queen?s Walk

London SE1 2AA

*speakers will begin at 6.30pm prompt so please arrive at 6pm to allow time for security and registration at City Hall

Email this page back to Rachel Carlill, [email protected]

Or send by post to Rachel Carlill, Green Group, London Assembly, City Hall, The Queen?s Walk, London SE1 2AA

Enquiries: 020 7983 4964

Please complete the details below

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will / will not be attending the seminar

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BSL interpreter:

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[Loz]

> I am delighted to invite you to a seminar that I am hosting to discuss Cyclists and the Law in London?s Living Room,

Am I being cynical when I suspect that this seminar will have little to do with getting cyclists to obey the law?

[ianr]

Also included in the press release from Jenny Jones: http://www.london.gov.uk/media/assembly-member-press-releases/green-party/2013/05/news-from-jenny-jones-am-jenny-jones-am-to-host-cyclists-and-the

"A limited number of spaces are available for the event. If you would like to attend, please email [email protected] with your personal details by Monday 20th May. Places will be allocated on a first come, first served basis. Refreshments will be provided."

[Laur]

On page 4 of today's Southwark News it reports that Southwark Police said "they had no record of the incident".

I hope that this is incorrect and that for the records that this was reported.

[the-e-dealer]

Not content with pavements The Cyclists are riding around the living room now?!

[henryb]

> Am I being cynical when I suspect that this

> seminar will have little to do with getting

> cyclists to obey the law?

It is car drivers breaking the law is a bigger road safety problem. It is unsuprizing if people focucs on that.

[Loz]

henryb Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> > Am I being cynical when I suspect that this

> > seminar will have little to do with getting

> > cyclists to obey the law?

>

> It is car drivers breaking the law is a bigger

> road safety problem. It is unsuprizing if people

> focucs on that.

People? You mean cyclists saying 'don't stop us disobeying the law - there's nasty drivers out there'. Which is right up there with the old 'why aren't you lot out there catching burglars'. And just as plausible.

[henryb]

Yes because car drivers breaking are law killing and injuring lots of cyclists. There aren't car drivers killed by cyclists.

To me, when I am cycling, cars being driven dangerously is a great concern to me. When I am driving, cyclist's dangerous cycling isn't of much consequence.

[the-e-dealer]

Do you look outside your car at the other road users?

[henryb]

I do. I meant in terms of my own personal safety.

[the-e-dealer]

If you hit a cyclist its usually down to the car driver. You need to be more carefuls

[henryb]

I am very careful when I driving. Especially when there cyclists around. They always fecking jumping red lights... nutters. Oh wait a minute.

[BrandNewGuy]

Dear Lord. This thread makes me want to jump in front of one of those bloody speeding cars. Admin could have a separate area of the forum for any post or thread mentioning cyclists and/or cars. Then I could ignore it completely...

[the-e-dealer]

Oh Henry you make Laugh out Loud!

henryb Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I am very careful when I driving. Especially when

> there cyclists around. They always fecking jumping

> red lights... nutters. Oh wait a minute.

[DJKillaQueen]

Granted, there are few fatalities of drivers at the hands of cyclists, but there have been pedestrians killed by cyclists (ten between 2005 and 2009 for example) and 262 pedestrians seriously injured during the same period.

I think it's niaive to see a cycle as somehow not capable of causing death or injury. A cyclist jumping a light may also cause a vehicle to swerve which can lead to an accident.

At the end of the day, irresposible cyclists are on a par with irresponsible drivers, and equally capable of both having and causing an accident, which leads to death or serious injury.

What isn't in dispute however is that responsible cyclists come off worst in collisions with poor drivers. Making the roads safer for those cyclists, but not at the total cost of responsible drivers, is the challenge.

[henryb]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

> At the end of the day, irresposible cyclists are

> on a par with irresponsible drivers, and equally

> capable of both having and causing an accident,

> which leads to death or serious injury.

Well that?s your opinion and I respect that. The difference seems quite clear to me but if the compromise position is that for the police taking more action against speeding drivers, drivers stopping in ASZs and drivers over taking cyclists too closely then they also give out more tickets for cyclists jumping lights then I would go along with that.

[DJKillaQueen]

I think that's only fair and in the interest of everyone's safety.

Tbf to the Police, they do do mobile road blocks to catch cyclists jumping lights (and riding on pavements too) just as they do road blocks to catch uninsured drivers, untaxed vehicles etc. The problem is that they can't be everywhere all of the time and there has been a shift away from mobile traffic policing and more reliance on speed cameras and CCTV. But the problem of course is that CCTV is only interested in parking and bus lane misdemeanors, not dangerous driving or cyclists (or drivers for that matter) jumping lights.

So we end up with a situation where if you drive in a bus lane or park where you shouldn't you have a high chance of being fined. If you drive whilst uninsured or untaxed you have a semi-fair chance of being caught. But driving too fast or dangerously, jumping red lights etc (be it cycle or car) only a small chance of being caught and fined. And sadly being caught in those instances involves something going very badly wrong.

[Loz]

henryb Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Well that?s your opinion and I respect that. The difference seems quite clear to me but if the

> compromise position is that for the police taking more action against speeding drivers, drivers

> stopping in ASZs and drivers over taking cyclists too closely then they also give out more tickets

> for cyclists jumping lights then I would go along with that.

I'd be more than happy with that. I don't want to see anyone breaking the law. I hate to see drivers OR cyclists saying 'boo hoo, you should be hassling someone else'.

Everyone obeys the law = everyone is safer.

[the-e-dealer]

That's how the highway code works

[binary_star]

DJKillaQueen Wrote (my emphasis):

-------------------------------------------------------

Irresposible cyclists are on a par with irresponsible drivers, and equally capable of both having and causing an accident, which leads to death or serious injury.

Absolutely NOT. By any stretch of the imagination.

Am glad the little girl is ok, could have been a much worse outcome for her family.