Child hit by car (she's fine), Lordship lane with upland

[henryb]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> henryb - of course drivers need to make sure they

> can stop should the unexpected happen, but your

> black and white view which seems to amount to "the

> motorist is always to blame" seems pretty bizarre

> even by EDF standards.

My view is if you are doing something dangerous to others in a public place that it is your responisbility not injure anyone. Driving a car is dangerous to others. Crossing a road with a child isn't.

It terms of actual policy I would like to see default 20 limit in residential areas and presumed liability for accidents between motor vehicles and other road users.

[DJKillaQueen]

Ok so the police are dangerous then, ambulances too....buses....and what about airplanes? Gas can explode, electricity can start fires and household knives can be used to kill people. The point is to call any item dangerous per se is asking for trouble. And to suggest that a pedestrian taking a risk by running out in front of traffic is not responsible just leaves me speechless. Have you any idea of the shock and trauma, drivers that do find themselves in that unfortunate scenario experience? The first rule of the hoighway code is to avoid an accident if you can. I always remember that. But it applies to pedestrians too. There ARE safe crossing points and pedestrians that use then rarely have accidents with vehicles.

[the-e-dealer]

So are surgeons - all those knives! But the Point is in AN EMERGENCY requiring a rapid response the risk is more justified that is some Lady rushing round at 40mph to park on the pavement in Peckham Rye park to walk her cat.

Knife Sales are restricted DERR !

Airplanes are subject to more rules and regulations than almost anything else.

You seem to be arguing against yourself

EDITED TO AVOID SEXISM / DOGISM complaints!

[DJKillaQueen]

I can buy a kitchen knife of any size anywhere....so no...knives are not restricted at all.

Vehicles are subject to rules and regulations too DERR...and the vast majority of drivers keep within them.

[the-e-dealer]

Go up to a policeman and show him your kitchen knife - do us all a favour ! :-)

[DJKillaQueen]

That doesn't even dignify a response.

[the-e-dealer]

Good!

[DJKillaQueen]

You are such a troll, but one I find quite funny at times :)

[ED - NAGAIUTB]

I really thought that DB&B had hit a new low in human evolution but henryb, you take it to a whole new (lower) level.

You can lead a blind man to water, but you can't make him think.........

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

ED, Pot, Kettle Black?!

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

DJKQ, you just argue about everything for the sake of arguing . It's boring .

I am sure everyone is bored now so let this thread die a natural death now .

I am off to cross the road safely to get into my car .

[the-e-dealer]

Arggh ! stop trolling me!

[the-e-dealer]

She Does!

[kiera]

I agree with ED-NAG that this would not be a safe place to have a crossing. It isn't even safe for motorists who want to turn right - either turning right into Upland Road, risking cars running into the back of you, or moving into the middle of the road, facing the oncoming traffic to turn right into Court Lane. A motorist unfamiliar with the area would not be prepared for the many things to look out for on coming out of that bend. It's not a safe place to cross the road.

[DJKillaQueen]

'DJKQ, you just argue about everything for the sake of arguing'

No I don't. I only post on the threads you pop up on ;)

You just never agree with me, that's all :D

[LadyDeliah]

So we all agree then do we, that anyone who does not subscribe to your point of view ED - NAGAIUTB is thick and low on the evolutionary scale?

You are obviously a wise and intelligent super-being and I apologise profusely for being so stupid that I failed to recognise the brilliance of your argument.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Ha Ha Ha! You mean you don't agree with anything I say! :)

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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> 'DJKQ, you just argue about everything for the

> sake of arguing'

>

> No I don't. I only post on the threads you pop up

> on ;)

>

> You just never agree with me, that's all :D

[mako]

Strange thread. The crossing is poorly designed and cars regularly come too fast around the bend where they meet buses stopping, traffic turning out of court lane and traffic turning in and out of upland. It is sad but inevitable that accidents will occur and so highlighting this is what a local forum should be about to help prevent serious incidents in the future. It doesnt mean cars should be banned or pedestrians should need to take a big deviation to cross the road when a crossing exists. Some of the comments here though have simply been bizarre, offensive and ignorant, when a positive debate to improve the junction and crossing is clearly more worthwhile. Safer for pedestrians but also better for road users where queues could be reduced

[LadyDeliah]

In my opinion, we as a society and globaly have to rethink our addiction to the car and find other ways to do what we currently do by car.

We invade countries for the fuel that drives them, we have an ever fatter, sedentry population and increased pollution due to congestion, both of which negatively impact our health and NHS.

The car is a dangerous machine which, with even the best intentions of the driver, kills thousands of people every year, injures and disables many thousands more and puts millions of others in fear.

The car dominates public space and amenity. New and existing projects should have alternative methods of transport integrated at the planning stage, instead of always planning for cars.

We need a complete change in thinking about car use moving into the future because the current thinking is unsustainable.

[henryb]

Well said.

[LadyDeliah]

Thank you henryb.

[JohnL]

Afraid to say its not always cars

Saw a bike with panniers (heavy) almost take out a girl of about 5 at the bottom of Rye lane

at the Pelican crossing - green man was on - but the bikes often go through this red light.

How can the bikes tell when the green man is on at this crossing. They've often gone through

on red since the side road was blocked up (Sternhall Lane ?) - I know this so I peep out first

whateve the color of the man.

[Twirly]

LadyDeliah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> In my opinion, we as a society and globaly have to

> rethink our addiction to the car and find other

> ways to do what we currently do by car.

>

> We invade countries for the fuel that drives them,

> we have an ever fatter, sedentry population and

> increased pollution due to congestion, both of

> which negatively impact our health and NHS.

>

> The car is a dangerous machine which, with even

> the best intentions of the driver, kills thousands

> of people every year, injures and disables many

> thousands more and puts millions of others in

> fear.

>

> The car dominates public space and amenity. New

> and existing projects should have alternative

> methods of transport integrated at the planning

> stage, instead of always planning for cars.

>

> We need a complete change in thinking about car

> use moving into the future because the current

> thinking is unsustainable.

I partially agree with you LadyD, however, it's not the cars that are the problem, it's the people who drive them, and it's bascially down to people being selfish and inconsiderate - people who think that their ability to get somewhere that little bit faster is more important than any one else's needs/rights. It's not just car drivers, it's everywhere, even on public transport where people seem to think that they should be able to get on the train before you get off, clutter up seats, refuse to move down the bus/train so others can get on. Even pedestrians who insist on walking in the road, or who rush out into traffic when they shouldn't, or barge other pedestrians out of the way. The trouble with cars is that they create such a lot of damage when something does go wrong.

I drive and I also use public transport. I tend to do the former when I can't get where I need to go easily/safely by public transport, have a lot to carry (the most frequent reason, as I am a massage therapist and often carry equipment for work that would be impossible to transport otherwise) or it's simply cheaper (usually the case if I've got another person with me). Whilst I would encourage less reliance on the car, our public transport infrastructure simply isn't up to the job sometimes.

[James Barber]

The island was placed there because people cross the road there and 2005-2011 8 crashes have occurred involving 10 people being injured - 6 slightly, 4 seriously - mostly car occupants in vehicles turning or crasihng into turning vehicles. Using DfT figures this will have cost our society ?178,160 per serious injury alone.

It will be August 2013 before we have all the 2012 crash data made public to compare the crash rates but probably need several years for a full comparison of before and after the island.

The site has a speed limit of 30mph.

Southwark Council traffic counts can be seen:

http://maps.southwark.gov.uk/connect/index.jsp?tooltip=yes

September 2012 south bound from point between Friern Road and Barry Road on Lordship Lane - so probably slowing to the lights or pulling away from the lights average speed 24.8mph north and 26.1mph southbound but 85th percentile speeds were 30.9mph and 31.3mph respectively. BUT this means that 15% were going faster than these speeds in a 30mph area.

Clearly we have a speeding problem that needs to be addressed and that is currently costing society a great deal of money in crashes and the consequences - let alone all the pain and suffering.

[Saffron]

Twirly Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> LadyDeliah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > In my opinion, we as a society and globaly have

> to

> > rethink our addiction to the car and find other

> > ways to do what we currently do by car.

> >

> > We invade countries for the fuel that drives

> them,

> > we have an ever fatter, sedentry population and

> > increased pollution due to congestion, both of

> > which negatively impact our health and NHS.

> >

> > The car is a dangerous machine which, with even

> > the best intentions of the driver, kills

> thousands

> > of people every year, injures and disables many

> > thousands more and puts millions of others in

> > fear.

> >

> > The car dominates public space and amenity. New

> > and existing projects should have alternative

> > methods of transport integrated at the planning

> > stage, instead of always planning for cars.

> >

> > We need a complete change in thinking about car

> > use moving into the future because the current

> > thinking is unsustainable.

>

>

> I partially agree with you LadyD, however, it's

> not the cars that are the problem,

Hmm sounding like the American gun lobby there... "Guns don't kill people, people kill people".

Though I agree that sometimes the public transport network isn't up to its job. It's a vicious cycle that drives more reliance on cars. But we should be looking to break this cycle, not reinforce it.

Very sorry to hear about the little girl injured on LL. I hope the pedestrians and driver and fine now. xx