Catch-up MMR campaign just launched

[LondonMix]

For those doubting the efficacy of the vaccination, its worth noting that in the US where vaccination is compulsory (you can't start school without it) endemic measles was eliminated more than a decade ago. All cases of measles in the US are the result of immigration and even then, in 2011, the US, with a population of over 300 million, had a grand total of 222 cases. This compares to the UK's total over over 2,000 cases last year and hopefully really puts into context the current Welsh outbreak which now exceeds 1,0000 cases.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6115a1.htm

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Do they have the triple in the USA? The same supplier as us ?

[LondonMix]

Yes, it is the MMR (triple) in the US. The US doesn't have an NHS so its possible that different doctors use different manufacturers as long as its FDA approved etc. There are only a handful of companies that manufacture it in the world.

[TE44]

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2013/05/03/2013-uk-fake-measles-epidemic/

few stats here, scroll to comments for more.

[bornagain]

TE44, what is your agenda?

[Jessie]

What a paranoid blog TE44. And how ironic to diss journalism while writing...(cod) journalism

[Saffron]

Although not all diagnosed cases may have been laboratory confirmed in any outbreak, that doesn't mean that non-confirmed cases were not measles. London Mix's point above about understanding the statics and the context in which they're applied is very important in order not to manipulate data with bias.

[LauraHW]

I was under the impression that the vaccine wouldn't offer you full protection but that you'd get a far milder form of the illness and wouldn't have the nasty side effects associated with the virus eg encephalitis. I'm sorry but those blogs posted by te44 look like opinions founded on belief rather than facts

[Saffron]

You don't have to have 100% immunity to resist infection. MMR does reliably prevent the spread of these infections, see LM's post above about measles in the US. Only a small percentage of people who've received 2 MMR jabs will be vulnerable to infection, and that infection is likely to be less severe.

[Saffron]

http://www.hpa.org.uk/webc/HPAwebFile/HPAweb_C/1317138802384

[TE44]

From Journal of infectious diseases.

From 1995-2001 there were 28,997 notified measle

cases in England and Wales. 19,060 were lab tested.

18,490 were negative, 570 positive. Link below for

more detail on testing.

http://m.jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/187/Supplement_1/S198.full

[Saffron]

Compare those confirmed cases with the hpa link, laboratory confirmed 587 cases of measles in England Jan-Mar 2013. Hence, the catch up campaign.

[emza78]

Despite all of this I think we do have to question whether measles itself is as serious as the government like to make out, we're consistently told that one in 15 COULD have serious complications and of course I wouldn't wish this on anyone but actual figures from the recent outbreak seem strangely absent.

Although I don't agree with all of the points in this article, I do think it offers up some real food for thought

http://www.jayne-donegan.co.uk/measles-2013

[TE44]

Saffron HPA link not working there are now part of public health london.

Is there any stats on how many lab tests done.

I can't find it.

[LondonMix]

I'm really not sure what people are debating or questioning as such. Measles is highly infectious. Before the vaccine, in most countries, virtually every child contracted it (over 90%). The less people vaccinate themselves in the population, the greater the incidence of measles. This really cannot be debated. The historical evidence is too strong. Widespread vaccination can virtually eliminate a disease that otherwise would infect virtually ever person in the population.

You can question if the danger measles poses is severe enough for the government to mandate vaccination. Each country has to decide that for themselves. It's true that most people can catch the measles and be absolutely fine. The complications of measles are very rarely deadly these days though the risk does remain.

However, the reason why its important for those who are likely to "sail through" a bout of measles to get vaccinated is to protect those who can't be vaccinated. For medical reasons and age there is always a portion of the population who can't be vaccinated (5-10% of the population in most developed areas). These groups who cannot get vaccinated are also the ones most likely to suffer severe complications during an outbreak.

So while you or your child may be fine, the greatest public health issue concerns the most vulnerable members of the community dealing with compromised immune systems, people with HIV, people with cancer, small babies, and unborn babies whose mothers couldn't be vaccinated for any of the reasons above. Its a personal choice but I would encourage people to think about the broader community when making this choice and how quickly a fall in vaccination rates can lead to outbreaks like the ones currently taking place.

[TE44]

Londonmix, There is a lack of info, conflicting info, doctors, scientists with extremely diffrent views,

vaccine damaged children, lies been told, refusal to acknowledge

when mistakes have been made. As a parent who has chosen not to vaccinate,

I am concerned when people assume the moral high ground, anyone who has made an

informed choice not to vaccinate, are mixing with friends, family,and community,

A reminder to parents about responsibility is an insult to families with vaccine damaged children,

parents who have made a diffrent choice.

L

I don't mean to be rude, I have no agenda, I posted first link I got with stats earlier,

Telling myself not to get into the round in circles conversation, physically I cant do it,

due to hypersensitivity with computers, which triggers a medical condition. I often have snatches

of the forum.

[bornagain]

LondonMix is quite right. It is all to do with the greater good, protecting those who are not able to be vaccinated and who are at most risk due to compromised immunity.

[katgod]

Did you read Pugwash's post? My children's grandfather similarly has very reduced sight due to childhood measles. It's an obvious decision when you have family members who did not have the benefit of immunisation. If the herd immunity thing does not move you, surely reading Pugwash's post or speaking to older relatives would?

[Saffron]

http:// www. hpa. org.uk /webc /HPAwebFile /HPAweb_C /1317138802384

http://www.hpa.org.uk/webc/HPAwebFile/HPAweb_C/1317138802384

have checked... seems to load fine.

[Saffron]

While I totally respect the individual choices of people who have chosen not to immunise, as we live in a country which does not require immunisation, posting misinformation as an antivaccine approach actually undermines itself.

The antivaccine posts linked here are not accurate. They're not presenting logical arguments, and worse, they're actually misrepresenting some of the statistics and information that researchers have taken great time and care over publishing.

It's not about taking moral high ground. It's about not manipulating data, which is true regardless of one's stance on vaccines.

Is immunisation perfect? No, but the perfect need not be the enemy of the good. Should we push for more research and more flexibility in scheduling? Yes, but we have to do these things in logical ways. The distribution of misinformation in the antivaccine links posted here is not only illogical, it's an insult to the actual researchers who've invested their time and talent in trying to improve vaccines by better understanding how and why they do/don't work.

I used to think of immunisation as a very black and white issue, but have come to understand there are indeed some shades of grey for individuals. However, by actively spreading misinformation and disinformation, antivaccine campaigners do no better to address the problem than the percieved lies they seek to refute. And using purportedly vaccine-damaged children as pawns in this campaign is frankly pretty low.

Think about how we might all feel if we lived in a country where the government had vaccines but chose not to distribute them?

[LondonMix]

TE44- I actually was responding the Emza78's link. Either way, we can agree to disagree on this.

Pugwash's story is very sad and perhaps my view on this is also coloured by knowing people who have suffered.

[TE44]

Londonmix, I think you're right, what you witness in your life, tends to colour your view, as it does us alll. Ithink

on this issue its best to agree to disagree. When speaking face to face its easier to reach that point

whilst still having respect for each others view.

Saffron the link showed no detail in fact i was unsure if

number of cases given were lab comfirmed or not.

Did you look at recent, more detailed figures on wales websites,

seems different figures are coming out.I think manipulation

is used on both sides. I'm sure you would put your grey areas

of thinking into a logical scientific file, and i'm glad to hear

you can see through the propaganda, like many. I do believe it

is no longer black and white,because people are questioning and its up

to them whether they agree or not. Anti vaccine is not something

new, that came with wakefield and computers.

[bornagain]

Anti vaccine is not something

new, that came with wakefield and computers.

Scepticism about vaccines might not be new but let's not forget that Wakefield has been thoroughly discredited - or do you think that this was a set up too?

[Pugwash]

With regards to my previous post. My mother when I had my kids was most anxious that I took up all the immunisation available to me. She always felt guilty about me contracting measles, even though there was no vaccine which could have been used in the 1950s. She saw it as a failure to protect me - an irrational belief that if my father had not deserted us and that if she was not forced to find full time employment and put me in Dog Kennel Hill nursery, then I would not have caught measles and not become deaf.

Whilst I understood the fear of many with the MMR jabs, I was always informed by our GP that if the child appeared unwell or had a cold/temperature onthe day that the jabs were due, it would be better to cancel the appointment to be on the safe side (possible complications) and go another day.