Gina Ford says... (lounged - non ED specific)

[lily'smama]

Hi,

I have given my Gina Ford and Babywhisperer book to a friend (as I thought we will be in our little routine for ever...silly me)and I have a questions as to when the little babsters are "suppose" to have only one nap and if that should be the am or pm one?

My little one has just started not to sleep at lunch time (only at 9:30am for 1h) so today we have kept her up until 11am and she slept until 1pm and is still going strong.

What does gina say?

Thanks!!!

[lily'smama]

-- moved topic --

[shoshntosh]

hi lily's mama...

i too have given away the same books but i seem to recall that around 12 months (of course this varies) they drop the morning nap and only have an afternoon nap (for two hours from just after lunchtime). i know that my two slept from about 1-3 everyday. you may have to tweak it a bit in the beginning to get the timing to work... (i.e. for her to make it through lunchtime without a sleep).

hope this helps some.

[lily'smama]

ok, that will still be quite a stretch for her but i assume that is where it is all going. the reason why i was a bit worried was that at nursery she only sleeps in the morning and when i pick her up she is absolutely knackered and can't keep her eyes open. i will just have to tell them to keep her up until after lunch.

thanks so much! i am feeling much more reassured!!!

[bawdy-nan]

doesn't gina mostly say "I'll see you in court"

edited because its gina not gins

[Curmudgeon]

given them away?

god I burned mine ... odious and useless IMO

why can't your baby sleep when it wants to and awake when it needs to?

edited to add: I fully appreciate however that how you raise your baby is totally up to you and none of my business

[jimbo1964]

Right on Curmudgeon. Gina Ford my a*se, let the babies be free to find their own way.

[mightyroar]

Great idea. let them stay up all night and sleep all day. then their parents can be nervous wrecks the whole time.

it'll be really great.

[Curmudgeon]

LOL @ mightyroar ... yes dear that's what happens, of course it is. There's no way that they find their own natural routines and sleep through the night through to past 8am from an early age and have good patterns of daytime sleep without an imposed routine developed by a childless woman with no qualifications who styles herself as a 'maternity nurse' which actually, if you look into it, means nothing.

No way at all.

Oh wait a minute ... I have anecdotal evidence that there is if that's of any use at all?

no?

[trinity]

Hi Lily'smama - you don't need Gina Ford to tell you that your baby is a bit older and has dropped one of her naps. They all go eventually and babies drop them when they no longer need them. No need to keep babies awake during the day when they are sleepy. Just let them sleep when they need to and you will find they sort themselves out.

Relax - you are the baby's mummy not Gina Ford - she can't tell you anything that you don't already know or if she can it's not worth knowing.

(Apologies if I sounded patronising - I am clearly not a Gina fan.)

[mightyroar]

I'm sure we all have anecdotal evidence to support our cases. We wouldnt be posting otherwise.

If Lily'smama wants to follow a bit of Gina's advice then what of it?

I too have doubts about the big G but that doesnt mean that all routines are bad. IMO a bit of routine can go a long way in a house with small babies in it.

[Moos]

my experience (limited to my own baby and those of my friends...) is that most babies don't drop their morning nap completely until about 15 months. I have found with mine that it is possible to let him sleep too long in the day with the result that he wakes up horribly early! But of course they're all different.

Don't have Gina's book so can't help, sorry, but perhaps you could sneak a peek in a bookstore? And I have no idea why a person shouldn't consult a book if she wants to - seems to me the smart thing to do if you have a question, you can always decide whether or not you're going to take up the author on his or her advice.

Good luck!

[Pickle]

Each to their own... it's easy to criticise other people's parenting decisions, but I think everyone is different and will have their own way of doing things. Who's to say what's right and what's wrong?

Personally I used what I like to call "Gina Ford Lite"... didn't follow her advice to the letter, but used it as a guide. As a result I have a happy little boy who sleeps well during the day and night. For me, the benefit of having a routine is the fact that I'm able to go along to various activities with him and know that he's going to be awake and happy (meaning we don't waste money signing up for things and then not being able to attend - important given how much some of the things round here cost!).

At 15 months he still has a short nap in the morning, and sleeps for 2 hours at lunchtime (12-2). Other friends babies of the same age have dropped the morning nap completely and just sleep at lunchtime - it really does depend on your baby.

[kford]

Everyone I know who does the Pickle method has great results with a happy, contented child.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

What's that? A tot of whisky in the bottle and they're pickled?

[Pickle]

Heh heh, I like it... "The Pickle Method"... perhaps I should write a book??

Although in the first 6 months it was me that was pickled, red wine was my saviour! Purely medicinal of course.

[trinity]

Sorry all - I didn't mean to criticise anyone for using Gina - it was really just a criticism of the idea that her book puts forward that her regime is the only way to contented babies. Of course it works well for some babies and some parents. Looking back at my own 4 little ones, it would have been disastrous for 3 and work perfectly for one.

I absolutely agree that routine is fantastic & really important for babies but its the regimentation of the book that feels a bit 'Stepford Wives' to me. Sounds like Pickle has found a nice balance.

I realise I am at risk of sounding a bit like an earth mother here but sometimes I think we (I mean society)look at parenting as stream of problems for which solutions are required rather than a journey along which mistakes will be made and solutions will arise.

[Moos]

Trinity, I'm sure no-one was offended by your post. I absolutely agree that everyone needs to find their own way. Books like GF or the Baby Whisperer are fantastic reference posts with a wealth of detail - even if you only use them to decide you are never going to follow their advice.

I do think it's important (picking up on Curmudgeon's point) to remember that not all babies do find their own path to sleeping in a way that suits both them and their parents. I think Curmudgeon was saying that GF's way was not the only way, but I've had lots of people tell me confidently that all babies 'just start' sleeping through and in many cases that just doesn't work. One of the mothers in my NCT group had a very alert baby that used to sleep a total of 6 non-consecutive hours in every 24. When he was about 6 months old (and she wasn't far from a nervous breakdown) she realised that she was going to have to teach him how to sleep with gentle cues and a routine. My own baby used to sleep for 45 minutes at a time, and again I found a routine was the way that he learned to settle himself at the end of a sleep cycle.

I'm absolutely not saying that a routine is the way for everyone - in fact, I quite envy those parents who can just go with the flow. But it works really well for some babies and some parents.

Hurrah for sleep!! Oh, the bliss...

[Pickle]

I agree with Moos - Trinity, your post wasn't offensive in any way :)

It's an interesting topic, and amazing how opinions will differ (even within subsets of parents using the same "techniques"). As someone who does use a routine I'll be the first to agree that it doesn't work for everyone, and I think a lot of it depends on the personality of the parents, not the baby. In some ways I'd love to be a "go with the flow" kind of person, but never have been in any other situation so I guess it followed naturally that I'd have some kind of routine in place when it came to bringing up children.

The GF book itself, IMO, could do with a re-write. It does come across as very clinical (e.g., 8am, mother to eat breakfast and drink a large glass of water), when really it could be written in a softer manner. She's really just telling you to make sure you take care of yourself amongst the chaos, but seems to lack the correct bedside manner!

Despite having used GF as a guide, I would hate to see someone try to follow it to the letter. One of my friends got in quite a state over it, feeling as if she was "failing" as she wasn't able to do everything the book said. So once again I think it's important that these books are used as guides and you incorporate only the parts that are of use to you.

I wonder how much of the success of these books is due to the changing family structure these days? Certainly for me the lack of having my Mum nearby (she's on the other side of the world) meant that a lot of questions that in past generations would have been answered by older maternal figures in the family were instead answered by reading books or looking on the internet. Also for a lot of people, having babies older, and coping almost as a single parent due to work commitments of partners must have an impact.

Anyway (I've got too much time on my hands... baby Pickle asleep, right on schedule ;-)), that's my thoughts! In a couple of months when baby Pickle #2 arrives I'm sure all my theories will go right out the window!

[CamberwellOz]

So many books... not enough time. All these books did was made me confused. Was it 6am when I was supposed to be waking up my happily sleeping child to eat or was that when I was using black plastic to block out the world and keep my babies room dark? I found the internet mother chat rooms helpful and I really did trust my instincts. My child is great, happy... some may even say a contented baby.

My mum on the other end of the phone was a great help too.

[*Bob*]

Gina.. bought it.. binned it.

I can appreciate it works for some (especially those with working commitments who need to try and bring a system into play) but what does irritate slightly is Gina's presentation as fact that her goose-stepping regime will work for every child and parent.. and the finger-pointing insinuation that if it doesn't then it's because somehow you're just not doing it right.

[lily'smama]

Thank you so much for all your input!

I totally agree with Pickle that one has to take Gina with a pinch of salt or any baby book for that matter as not baby (or mum) is the same. Personally, I feel reassured that everything is going ok when I can see it written by someone else (or hear it for that matter), but that might just be my insecurities speaking.

My little baba is going ok in her new routine and only had her lunch time sleep (12-1:30) and just went down for her sleep. I also just liked knowing what is going to happen during the day. When can we go to the playground etc. but of course some babies/mummies are just happy without a routine and that is tootally up to them I am just a sort of person that panics when I can't make lists and plans (I know...having a baby probably wasn't the way to go to have a super organised life).

Well, thanks to all of you!!!

:)-D:)-D

[Coach Beth]

Great news that things are going well lily'smama!

The best book I ever read on mothering was 'What Mothers Do (especially when it looks like nothing') by Naomi Stadlen. It is amazing, thoughtful and very reassuring.

[lily'smama]

thanks will take Moos' advice and have a sneaky look in a bookstore...

[woodie]

bawdy-nan Wrote:

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> doesn't gina mostly say "I'll see you in court"

>

> edited because its gina not gins

zackly. we were mumsnet people at baby time. Gina F totally blew it there.