Depressed? Nothing to live for?

[Sue]

*Bob* Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> What about the following week?

xxxxxxx

I'm not actually here, I'm an illusion :))

[DulwichFox]

Fasting and Binging on alternate days is a route ti developing Type-2 Diabetes.

It is important for anyone to maintain a stable Blood Sugar level.

Allowing blood sugar to dip you will experience fatigue, poor concentration, irritability,

nervousness, depression, sweating, headaches, cravings and digestive problems.

When blood sugar levels are very low, your 'pancreas' produces a hormone called 'glucagon'.

Glucagon helps to balance blood sugar levels by stimulating the body to break down its fat stores

and burn them for energy.

When the only source of Body Fuel is Fat stores, Ketones can be produced.

When fat stores are exhausted the body start to eat away vital organs.

This can lead to ketoacidosis.

Whilst ocassional / accidental 'Low' levels of Keytones are not dangerous, long turn build up

of 'Medium- High' levels of Keytones can be life threatening.

Exercising whilst De-hydrated can cauase Keytones indicated by 'Dark Urine'

On days when you 'Pig Out with refined carbohydrates this dramatically increases blood sugar levels.

So much so, that high blood glucose levels actually stimulate the pancreas to also release 'insulin'

which turns excess glucose into body fat, for 'long-term storage'.

Glucagon helps to get the body back into balance because it counters the effect of insulin by

stabilising blood sugar levels and reducing appetite, sugar and carbohydrate cravings.

However contant Peaks in blood sugar overloads the Pancreas as it tries to compensate with high levels

of insulin.. This can lead to Pre- Diabetes. and concequently over time to Type -2 Diabetes.

My Type-2 Diabetes was most probably due to this.

When I was working I was doing 7 12 hour Nights grabbing ready meals when I could.

Often going a day or two without food.

Also working 13 hours Sat/Sun and eating / binging late at night.

You should be warned about such a diet and monitor your blood sugars. If your sugar levels

are irratic, you are indanger of developing Diadetes.

It is not just Sugar.

The worst foods are White Bread, Potatoes, most Rice.

Foxy

[Sue]

A somewhat confused article about the 5:2 diet on the NHS website:

http://www.nhs.uk/news/2013/01January/Pages/Does-the-5-2-intermittent-fasting-diet-work.aspx

The issues of high/low GI foods are surely something else.

You say

"Allowing blood sugar to dip you will experience fatigue, poor concentration, irritability,

nervousness, depression, sweating, headaches, cravings and digestive problems."

I haven't had any of those symptoms since I started this diet, on either the fasting or the "feasting" days.

Not quite sure what you mean by "binging" but it sounds like an eating disorder to me, not what is recommended on this diet.

When you say "the worst foods are white bread, potatoes, most rice" this is a GI index issue, isn't it?

I'm sorry that you have diabetes, but I think you're muddying the waters here.

[Voyageur]

DulwichFox Wrote:

'On days when you 'Pig Out with refined carbohydrates this dramatically increases blood sugar levels.'

Umm... ok... well perhaps if that is what you think people do on this diet. I eat healthily (mainly fresh veg/fruit/brown rice etc. on non-fasting days - healthy soup on fasting days. Works fine for me, and my GP - who specialises in nutrition - said it was fine.

If you pig out on sugary foods generally you are going to be at risk on type 2 diabetes.

[Sue]

Voyageur Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If you pig out on sugary foods generally you are

> going to be at risk on type 2 diabetes.

xxxxxx

Agreed

[Jeremy]

Isn't it just better to eat a healthy diet every day, and do a bit of exercise? Presumably you're going to need to do that anyway to maintain your weight once you reach your target?

[Sue]

In theory yes.

In practice no.

Been there, done that, now intend to maintain my weight (once I've reached it) by the occasional fast day.

Can't go to the weight I once was though because x years on I would look like a ghoul :))

As opposed to a slender sylph :))

[numbers]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Isn't it just better to eat a healthy diet every

> day, and do a bit of exercise? Presumably you're

> going to need to do that anyway to maintain your

> weight once you reach your target?

ahahahahaha jeremy, don't be so silly, what a ludicrous suggestion! healthy diet every day AND exercise, now there's a thing ;-)

here's some more analysis on the diet (aside from last sentence, it comes across as fairly unbiased)- http://www.zoeharcombe.com/2013/04/the-2-day-diet/#utm_source=feed&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=feed

gist (I think) is this bit:

"I love maths, but I would lose the will to live even trying to work out one so-called non diet day of the triple simultaneous equation that would be my carb/fat/protein number and size of portions ? even allowing for the fact that the diet doesn?t know fats from proteins or carbs.

This is a 7 day diet, delivering barely a quarter of the calorie intake needed on 2 days of the week. That?s 30% of your life starving and 100% of your life on a diet ? counting portions and measuring out 80g of vegetables.

Don?t do it!

This is obsessive and miserable and it?s proven to lose an average of 0.5lb a week ? if you stick to the diet for 6 months. Then we don?t know if you will regain. I can confidently forecast that you will need to stay on this kind of restrained eating for life or you will regain ? you will have trained your body to maintain on a lower calorie intake.

Or you could just eat real food (meat, fish, eggs, dairy, vegetables, fruits in season and whole grains in moderation); three times a day and get on with your life."

[Sue]

numbers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Or you could just eat real food (meat, fish, eggs,

> dairy, vegetables, fruits in season and whole

> grains in moderation); three times a day and get

> on with your life."

xxxxxxx

But what if your life involves pistachio or hazelnut ice cream from

http://www.oddonos.com/shops.htm ,

lots of real ale and the occasional Crunchie bar??

[numbers]

then you're okay Sue, that sounds perfectly balanced :))

[Sue]

mwah xxx :))

Memo to self: Gig tomorrow, go to bed :))

[Jessie]

The guy who came up with the 5 2 diet thought it up specifically because he found out he was pre-diabetic. I would do it myself but skipping meals is a migraine trigger.

[Voyageur]

There's no fantastical science attached to the 'fasting' diet IMO - its just common sense, for me at least. I do eat healthily during the week and as far as possible at weekends, but I also eat out with friends 2-3 times a week (avoiding uber fatty stuff and dessert)and indulge in vino at weekends. Couple that with hitting the menopause and I have found that I am gradually broadening in the beam, despite walking 3 miles most days.

My current considerations to lose a bit of weight:

1) Eat healthily all week and drop the eating out and the vino;

2) Eat healthily during week, including two much lower calorie days (you still eat though).

I have been doing the regime for a few weeks now', have dropped some poundage and am still able to enjoy my social life at weekends - also, I find this relatively easy to do. The alleged health benefits (apart from weight loss) I am not convinced of, but whoopee doo if there are some.

Won't suit everyone - but what does?

[edcam]

Yes, people forget that weight loss isn't the main aim of the fasting diet. It's the all round health benefits that are the point.

[*Bob*]

Two years tops, it'll be in the bin along with Rosemary Conley's hip and thigh - and all the rest.

[Voyageur]

*Bob* Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Two years tops, it'll be in the bin along with

> Rosemary Conley's hip and thigh - and all the

> rest.

You're right - I should just allow obesity to take it's course :)

[DulwichFox]

Sue Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

Finding the fasting days quite hard, but have not

cheated at all because I know I can eat what I

want the next day.

The reason for that is when you

I'm taking the feasting days too literally

you will get a Peak in your blood glucose.. The later you eat the higher the peak.

this will be followed by a crash. so you will feel Hungry on fasting days.

ETA: I've also found that the morning after a fast day I'm not hungry.

This is because the brain tells the body not to expect food and use fat reserves..

Sadly I'm not losing much weight because I think

I'm taking the feasting days too literally

This is because the brain tells the body to retain water reduce dehydration.

Plus I'm a lazy slob and not getting enough

exercise.

You need to walk 5 miles + each day to start losing any weight

I find a bit of bouillon or marmite in hot water

helps to stave off the hunger pangs,

Again the Salt in Marmite causes water retention which cases High Blood Pressure.

When anyone (Diabetic or non Diabetic) eats on an empty stomach, there will always be

blood sugar highs and lows. This is not good.

I know if I skip breakfast a meal later will send my sugars soaring.

If I eat breakfast the same meal later will have little impact on my sugars..

This is the same for non diabetics. But you will be able to cope with this imbalance (For a while)

But continuing to have fluctuating glucose level will make you ill.

Foxy

[Voyageur]

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> You need to walk 5 miles + each day to start

> losing any weight

> continuing to have fluctuating glucose level

> will make you ill.

Neither of those statements are true I am afraid, but if they work for you all well and good. I would agree that fasting for long episodes (which the fasting diet doesn't advocate) is not particularly clever but dropping calorie level to 5-600 cals per day in a healthy person is not a guarantee of ill health. Besides, my GP said it was fine for me. We are all different.

[Sue]

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sue Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

>

> Finding the fasting days quite hard, but have

> not

> cheated at all because I know I can eat what I

> want the next day.

xxxxx

>

> The reason for that is when you I'm taking the

> feasting days too literally

> you will get a Peak in your blood glucose.. The

> later you eat the higher the peak.

> this will be followed by a crash. so you will

> feel Hungry on fasting days.

xxxxxxxxxxxx

No, I'm feeling hungry on fasting days because I'm not eating very much and that is the body's usual signal that it wants food..

xxxxxxxx

> ETA: I've also found that the morning after a

> fast day I'm not hungry.

xxxxxx

>

> This is because the brain tells the body not to

> expect food and use fat reserves..

xxxxxxxxx

No, fat reserves are only used after a longer period of fasting than a day, which is why the 5:2 diet specifically says that your fasting days should not be consecutive.

xxxxxxxx

> Sadly I'm not losing much weight because I think

> I'm taking the feasting days too literally

xxxxx

> This is because the brain tells the body to

> retain water reduce dehydration.

xxxxxxx

Fox, water retention does not continue to increase in the body over several months of dieting.

xxxxxxxx

> Plus I'm a lazy slob and not getting enough

> exercise.

xxxxx

>

> You need to walk 5 miles + each day to start

> losing any weight

xxxxxxx

Sorry Fox but that is just absolute rubbish. Where on earth do you get your information from? You need to expend more calories in energy than you are taking in in food over the same period, and that is how you lose weight.

xxxxxxxx

> I find a bit of bouillon or marmite in hot water

> helps to stave off the hunger pangs,

xxxxx

>

> Again the Salt in Marmite causes water retention

> which cases High Blood Pressure.

xxxxxx

Oh for goodness sake. Half a teaspoon of Marmite occasionally is not going to give me high blood pressure, and in any case I have low blood pressure.

xxxxxxx

> When anyone (Diabetic or non Diabetic) eats on an

> empty stomach, there will always be

> blood sugar highs and lows. This is not good.

xxxxxx

That is rubbish. A couple of boiled eggs, for example, on an empty stomach does not give you "blood sugar highs and lows", at least not enough to cause any significant damage or symptoms.

xxxxxxxxx

>

> I know if I skip breakfast a meal later will send

> my sugars soaring.

> If I eat breakfast the same meal later will have

> little impact on my sugars..

xxxxxxx

It depends on what you're eating and whether it is high or low GI, which has absolutely nothing to do with the 5:2 diet

xxxxxxx

> This is the same for non diabetics. But you will

> be able to cope with this imbalance (For a while)

> But continuing to have fluctuating glucose level

> will make you ill.

xxxxxxx

You are confusing several different issues here.

ETA: Hope it's clear who has said what, as my bold italics have been removed - see below!

I've now tried to differentiate Fox and my posts by spacing and xxxx but not sure it has worked ....

[RosieH]

edcam Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yes, people forget that weight loss isn't the main

> aim of the fasting diet. It's the all round health

> benefits that are the point.

Yes - science suggest that the health benefits of the 5:2 fasting diet are the same as a regular, run-of-the-mill healthy eating regime.

Who'd a thunk it?

[*Bob*]

'Here comes the science..'

When it comes to weight loss, never underestimate the willingness of otherwise perfectly sane people to reject the obvious and embrace the fad.

[edcam]

RosieH Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> edcam Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Yes, people forget that weight loss isn't the

> main

> > aim of the fasting diet. It's the all round

> health

> > benefits that are the point.

>

>

> Yes - science suggest that the health benefits of

> the 5:2 fasting diet are the same as a regular,

> run-of-the-mill healthy eating regime.

>

> Who'd a thunk it?

That's not true actually - where did you read this research?

[El Pibe]

oi sue, you need a licence to operate html tags you know!!

[Sue]

El Pibe Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> oi sue, you need a licence to operate html tags

> you know!!

xxxxxx

Seriously, is it forbidden on the forum?

I didn't know that. I was just trying to make a mass of text a bit clearer to differentiate who said what!

I've gone back and used spacing now. I'll take my comment at the bottom out, as I hadn't seen your post when I edited mine.

[Voyageur]

*Bob* Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> 'Here comes the science..'

>

> When it comes to weight loss, never underestimate

> the willingness of otherwise perfectly sane people

> to reject the obvious and embrace the fad.

Hmmm... the answer is obviously to eat less, eat more healthily and exercise more. Pretty much what this diet and, for example, weightwatchers do. It's just a more structured way of doing the right thing that some people find useful at certain points in life. No harm done.