censorship on this forum because of legal issues

[Buzzard]

Reading the Green & Blue thread, it's sad to see that some shop on the Lane has written a threatening letter to the forum to put them under pressure to make sure that nothing about a certain dispute is written by members. I guess it's only natural that a small business like this forum has to err on the side of caution and bend to their will, but I have a tip for the moderator:

publish the nasty letter

there's no legal reason to not do so, and it will rightly embarrass the people who as silly enough to write them

by the way, forum people: there's no law against - and certainly nothing libellous - about discussing a boundry dispute about drains. I am willing to put that on a certificate that you can frame.

[bignumber5]

Or maybe we have a little friendly respect for the difficult position the forum admin team are in, and just let it go?

[Buzzard]

I thought it was obvious from the above post that I do fully understand the difficulties that the admin team find themselves in - difficulties that are caused by chippy local businesses who want to shut up people like you and me.

I find your response baffling and unsubstantiated, and unless you withdraw it I shall instruct my solicitors to issue an injunction against you from posting any further.

[bignumber5]

I'm in over my head...

[Buzzard]

;-)

[Administrator]

Moving this to the "About this forum" section.

[Buzzard]

-- moved topic --

[Curmudgeon]

In law at the moment the website proprieter is the 'publisher' and responsible for all comments posted, so whilst any discussion may start out fine, one simple defamatory comment can result in legal action against 'Admin'.

It's not as easy a subject as you seem to think and is certainly not the same as a conversation down the pub with 'admin' being the friendly landlord.. s/he is responsible for what is posted and can be held liable.

Stupid law.

[Michael Palaeologus]

The Forum isnt a business - its run on a voluntary basis by a small team of Administrators that somehow shoe-horn keeping an eye on the Forum into their busy lives, I am not one of them by the way. As far as I am aware the only funds that the Forum receives is from the sponsorshop from local businesses - but that is not alot.

All who use a public forum surely need to do so responsibly. If the Forum has been threatened with legal action, the Admin Team needs to take a balanced view. The debate on G&B wasnt stopped, but elements of it were controlled; thus is the nature of moderation.

All of us who use the Forum do so voluntarily, if we dont like the moderation exercised, then we can always stop using it. In doing so we exercise our freedom of choice, no matter how chippy we may be.

[Mark]

Thanks for the tip Buzzard but it's not as simple as that and just because it's not illegal doesn't mean it's ok to do it. We don't want to embarrass the local businesses, it?s not what we do and it?s a bit rude to do that to someone local in the community. It?s their business and they have asked for it not to be mentioned so we have asked people not to mention it.

Can we leave it there please.

[benjaminty]

Sounds like Mark knows the whole story. I have to say I'm very intrigued as to what has happened around the drains, especially that G&B went to such lengths to remove the details. So Buzzard's post was born out of intrigue more than anything else I suspect ... and you can't blame him for that.

PS - Can I say that I've never liked G&B? Sorry I'm being facetious I know ..... I've never understood why everyone raves about it.

[Mark]

Of course you can say you don't like G&B benjaminty but I would say that it's better to say why as well, I know local traders read this forum and they act on people's comments. G&B and the Seacow are classic examples of people who care about what they do and take on board what people have said about them and act on it. Personally I think that's great business sense.

And yes, I do know the whole story and I can say that it wasn't G&B who asked for the details to be removed. The party in question has asked for the issue not to be mentioned on the forum and so therefore the forum team have to respect that (and I know that is what the Administrator tried to do without stopping the discussion).

The forum's had a few legal threats against it and I have to say (as the person who set it up) that I really appreciate the offers of help from forum users who work in area and can offer assistance. Oh, and if you come to a forum drinks sometime and I'm there, just ask and I'll tell you the full story.

[legalbeagle]

Can I please add, as a member of the Green and Blue management team with full knowledge of the details of "the drains" issue, that at no point has Green & Blue threatened the forum with legal proceedings or asked for any discussions of any matters to be prevented or curtailed. We are fully in favour of free speech in all its forms, whether or not it casts us in a favourable light. Benjaminity - I am sorry that you don't like the business we run, but you are fully entitled to your views and to express them in any form you choose. Whilst I agree with Mark that constructive criticism is more useful for local traders, if you don't want to say why you don't like us, that's fine too. We don't expect to be universally loved. We did not, however, go to any lengths to have comments about the drains issue removed as you suggest.

[louisiana]

For anyone interested in how forum legal threats can pan out, check out the Netmums / Gina Ford saga on the web. (There are forum cases that have gone the other way but...)

The libel laws in the UK are fairly tricky (compared to other countries such as the US). Online has really made things trickier still. When added to no-win, no-fee legal arrangements (so any tom dick or harry can launch an action with nothing in the bank), you have a recipe for effective censorship.

Some free speech laws in the UK would not go amiss. There are a number of very sensible people pursuing a bill of rights for the UK, and I wish them luck...

[Asset]

Can't Admin put a disclaimer thingy in somewhere prominent saying, "the views expressed within are not necessarily the views of us blah blah blah", like I've seen on other websites e.g. BBC.

I have to say that it does smack rather as a curtailment of our right to free speech, shouldn't libel be a retrospective situation i.e. you can't stop the free speech on the chance something libelous may be said?

I'm not bothered about this particular situation just interested in general.

[Mark]

A packed theatre is halfway through a performance when suddenly a man starts shouting "fire! fire!" Everyone runs out the building but it's soon discovered that there is no fire, so they ask the man why he shouted what he did. "Freedom of speech" he replies, "I can shout what I want".

The point being yes you can say what you want but it's preferred that you don't say some things in certain circumstances. There are terms and conditions on this site but we generally leave it up to common sense. If an individual or business has asked the forum not to publish something for a good reason then we generally do so out of politeness because East Dulwich is a small(ish) place and it's not fair on those recognisable individuals or businesses. If someone thinks something is out of order then let us know and we'll act on it, they just have to ask. Sometimes they demand in an incredibly rude manner and shout and have tantrums and slag of the users of the forum but we do what we see fit and for the general good. Fortunately it doesn't happen often, about 4 times in the last 18 months.

There's a good bit here about libel on the BBC website http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/actionnetwork/A1183394

[Buzzard]

It never occurred to me that it was Green & Blue that tried to gag the forum, on the contrary.

I'm another lawyer, and I suppose this post was born of frustration because it's quite easy for someone like me to shoot a letter off to a forum like this and, because of the fancy letterhead, know that the recipient is likely to be too afraid to challenge me, even if the words are empty. My suggestion that you post the threats in that context was quite serious - it's a great way of levelling the playing field.

I accept what you say Mark if this was not one such occasion.

[ontheedge]

There was another thread on here on I think the 25th April which was completely libellous and disappeared very quickly i'm suprised noone else has mentioned it, or does everyone have very good manners.

[Mark]

why would people mention it if it "was completely libellous"?