Advice Needed - Monday to Friday lodger

[HeadNun]

I'm hoping for some guidance from anyone who might have experience of having a lodger on a part-time basis.

I recently took in my third lodger, who responded to an ad in the 'Monday to Friday' section of Spareroom. So far he's been great, we get on well, he seems like a gent etc. I had asked him what nights during the week he'd like to stay and he said Monday, Tues and Weds. I drew up a contract, which stipulates he will stay on 'the weekdays of Mon - Weds, with some flexibility around those weekdays'. He pays me a monthly DD, whether he's there 3 nights a week or not.

One weekend he was in a bit of a fix and I offered him the room on a Friday and a Sunday as a gesture of goodwill. I didn't charge him extra those nights, because I knew he'd only stay two nights the following week.

He had told me last week he'd be arriving Monday, as per usual. However on the Sunday afternoon he texted to say he'd be arriving later that night. I explained that I had my parents staying with me and so he couldn't come, the room was occupied. He became quite annoyed and said he'd bought an off-peak ticket and had no choice but to come. I became alarmed, imagining him turning up on my doorstep and making a scene, expecting me to turf my folks out! He sent another text saying he was paying me a lot of money and didn't expect the room to be available only at my convenience.

I spent last night feeling really anxious about this all. He arrived tonight, we discussed this (both a little rattled) and he explained that he expects to be given priority of my spare room. He says that in his experience, when a lodger takes a room, that room is exclusively reserved for them, whether they are there or not. He was reasonable and admitted he hadn't been clear that he expected flexibility. I explained that for me, a weekday-only let means just that. He said he considers a Sunday night to be part of the working week and reminded me that he's paying me a flat fee, even though he won't always be here.

It's a long winded story - sorry, but I wanted to give all the detail. Have I got this massively wrong? Even though he's my third lodger, this situation has never arisen before, so I'd love your advice.

[Jenijenjen]

He’s either trying it on or is very naive. If he wants the room available for him seven days a week then he should pay a rent that covers seven days a week regardless of how many nights he stays. This sounds very intimidating for you in your own home and I think he needs his marching orders, involving a solicitor if needs be.

[HeadNun]

Thanks Jenijen.

His argument is that, because he's paying me monthly, and often doesn't stay all the nights he's paid for, he expects some flexibility to stay on a Sunday. It's v complicated.

[Siduhe]

I think there's a difference between expecting some flexibility during the period when the room was offered (Monday to Friday) and/or agreed to be rented (Monday to Wednesday) vs. expecting the room to be kept for his exclusive use when he wants it, including outside those periods, which is what it sounds like he is saying.

I think you're on strong grounds to say that you can be flexible Monday to Friday as advertised but not at weekends and any agreement for him to stay on a Sunday needs to be specifically agreed in advance at the start of the week. Just because he isn't there one night doesn't mean he's entitled to a different night of his choosing unless it works for you.

[beigemartin]

His argument is that, because he's paying me monthly, and often doesn't stay all the nights he's paid for, he expects some flexibility to stay on a Sunday. It's v complicated.

 

I'm not sure the fact that he is paying monthly makes any difference. He is paying for the room to be available for him to say in. The flexibility is obviously where the issue us.

The contract states:

'the weekdays of Mon - Weds, with some flexibility around those weekdays'

 

This is vague, probably intentionally so. At a push, I could see how he thinks Sunday is included in 'around those weekdays'. However, I would expect the 'flexibility' in a situation such at this (vague contract, lodging in someone else's home) to mean that he could stay after confirming it with you. After all, if he is expecting first refusal over all nights, without notice, then he should just be paying for those nights (since it prevents you using the room on those nights).

[Lynne]

I wouldn't think that he's entitled to anything just because he hasn't used all the days he's paying for. The contract didn't say "X nights a week" giving him the option of when to take those nights.

If I bought a box of chocolates and didn't eat them all, I wouldn't expect Sainsburys to refund me or provide fresh ones in replacment

[Jenijenjen]

Nice analogy!

[HeadNun]

I wouldn't think that he's entitled to anything just because he hasn't used all the days he's paying for. The contract didn't say "X nights a week" giving him the option of when to take those nights.

If I bought a box of chocolates and didn't eat them all, I wouldn't expect Sainsburys to refund me or provide fresh ones in replacment

 

I wish I'd been clever enough to think of this brilliant analogy myself last night.

[1633]

I’ve been moved to write a reply after a bad experience with a lodger myself, so take it for what it’s worth.

I think you should not disregard your feeling of alarm and fear he may just turn up and make a scene. It may be your intuition telling you something. Stick to your boundaries and if you feel he repeatedly disrespects them or you feel manipulated, consider finding a new lodger. Remember lodgers don’t have the same rights as tenants, so you can ask him to leave at any time with reasonable notice, and the notice can be verbal.

https://www.rocketlawyer.com/gb/en/quick-guides/how-to-evict-a-lodger

[LMCPR]

Change your locks.

[malumbu]

Wow, not a lot of sympathy for the lodger who may have good reason to occasionally need some flexibility.

The whole concept of having a part time occupant sounds strange and potentially awkward to me.

FYI I did the lodger thing yonks ago, I made some good friends but others I was less fond of. The best was the chap who as well as being in arrears didn't have great personal hygiene. I also lodged with married friends in Havering when I moved to London, not the most harmonious of arrangements and asked to move out after a few weeks. So have seen it from both ends

[kristen]

Wow, not a lot of sympathy for the lodger who may have good reason to occasionally need some flexibility.

The whole concept of having a part time occupant sounds strange and potentially awkward to me.

FYI I did the lodger thing yonks ago, I made some good friends but others I was less fond of. The best was the chap who as well as being in arrears didn't have great personal hygiene. I also lodged with married friends in Havering when I moved to London, not the most harmonious of arrangements and asked to move out after a few weeks. So have seen it from both ends

 

The lodger may need some flexibility but it doesn't appear that he's been direct in asking for this. Instead he booked a train ticket without checking if the room was available. When it wasn't he put pressure on HeadNun to make the room available. He then appears to think he's owed access to the room on any day of his choosing. He seems to be arguing for what he thinks is entitled to, rather than what they agreed to.

Maybe he interpreted the gesture of goodwill - being able to stay a Friday and a Sunday - as an indication things could be more flexible. Maybe he's in a difficult situation and has a pressing need for somewhere to stay at short notice.

But if HeadNun has said this isn't what she is offering he can't pressurise her into doing this (which is what he appears to be trying to do). It's reasonable for him to ask or check out what flexibility there is in the contract. It's not reasonable to argue that Monday to Friday includes Sunday or refuse to listen when someone says no.

If I was in this situation I'd be really anxious. Someone I've said can live in my house doesn't want to stick to an agreement we made. It's been covered in what other people have said but if he needs access on any day of the week he needs to find somewhere that offers this, and this would probably cost him a lot more.

[niall]

there's a screenplay in here

[Penguin68]

I think this has been effectively said by others, but if you want the transactional relationship to continue then 'amending' your agreement to include some sort of notice period for weekend (or alternative day) access would seem reasonable - say 10 days notice for weekend access, with this being dependent on convenience for you (you can refuse this request). Should he wish to request access without that notice, then he should understand that he has no 'rights' to that, and you can very reasonably refuse it. He is buying full access for 3 specific days in the week - when you could not offer his room to anyone else - anything else (day flexibility) is grace and favour from you. If he choses not to use the time he has bought, that is his choice. What he cannot do is to buy 3 specific days and then expect to swap them willy-nilly - that's an entirely different commercial contract - where you would charge him much more than the 'going' 3 day rate for that level of flexible access - in effect he is wanting not a specific 3 days, but any 3 days in a week - thus limiting your own use of the space not to 4 days but to 7 days.

You would be entirely in your rights to rent out the room to another person for (a different) 4 days a week - in which case he would have no flexibility of use at all!

[HeadNun]

Wow, not a lot of sympathy for the lodger who may have good reason to occasionally need some flexibility.

 

He had a very good reason to need some flexibility, he just didn't tell me he needed flexibility. Instead he thought he could turn up on my doorstep, even though I asked him not to, on a night for which he wasn't paying.

[malumbu]

He/she without sin cast the first stone.

I've made mistakes, obviously those of you on their moral high ground haven't

I was a great Landlord/lady but not always an ideal tenant.

[Jules-and-Boo]

it's all about communication.

[PhillyIlly]

Hi

I have had mon-friday lodgers for the past 5 years and have it written into the contract that we can use the room at weekends as you do for family/friends visiting etc. If they want the room an extra night, they need to give prior notice and agree it in advance.

You are right and he has misunderstood the arrangement.

[HeadNun]

Thanks Philly, I will definitely put it in the contract next time and make it very clear to any future lodgers.

The other day he came home and offered me a sincere apology - said he'd been asking around and realised he'd got it all wrong. He's been living out of the UK for twenty years, and has never lodged before, so I guess he is a little out of touch. I also said he can stay the occasional Sunday, FOC, with plenty of notice.

So all's well. Thank you, everyone, for your advice.