Working mums - how are you finding it all?

[hernehilly]

I am a working mum of 2 - who are now 8 and 6. I've worked 4 days a week since number one and now do 4 days plus 5th from home during term time.

I work in HR for a big professional services co, so have similar chats with many facing these issues. I always say, it's tough and don't make any long term decisions till you've been back at least 3 months; you feel guilty ,conflicted, tired etc but (and here I so agree with midivydales post), it is actually nice to be at work sometimes, having adult conversations, being listened to, not feeling like a drudge - the list goes on! I met a wise lady once at a work function, where for some reason I was apologetically describing myself as a working mum, and she said - 'you're setting a wonderful example to your daughters and you are obviously very good at your job, so there is nothing to apologise for or feel guilty about'! It suddenly made a huge difference to how I felt about things.

[etta166]

amydown Wrote:

> I'm trying to see why a company would be

> interested in "making it work" for working mums.

> There is the bigger piece around women needing to

> have babies for the society to continue, but other

> than the social responsibility aspect, what is the

> real benefit for companies to have us working mums

> doing part-time/ sensible hours when they have a

> long queue of capable and willing counterparts?

> After all, no one is irreplaceable in the

> corporate world, no matter how senior you are!

No one is actually irreplaceable, but most professional working mothers/fathers do represent a signficant investment in terms of training and experience to a company. It's much better to compromise for 5-10 years on hours etc. than to risk losing half your workforce as they hit their mid thirties and start having families.

Also, I'm convinced that men will soon twig that it's more fun have a mix of family and work time in the week, and start asking for and getting more flexible working arrangements (not sure how soon tho!). So I think it would be short-sighted of a company to be anti-family in its outlook.

[Convex]

The key thing for me has been the attitude of my colleagues, well the ones senior to me. Out of my main 3:

1 is horrendous bordering on bullying (I have support to help me deal with this in case anyone is worried!)

1 accepts the times I need to rush of but I can see he is annoyed occasionally, but on balance he doesn't mind as he was happy I came back from maternity leave

1 is very firm that 'I don't care what hours you do I only care that the job is getting done - you need to find a way to make it work and I will support you how I can'

I work full-time, and I don't feel guilty. I did at first, but I don't now. I'm about 6 months in.

I like my job which is a big factor and I know my son enjoys his nursery. In an ideal world I would have a shorter commute so pick ups weren't so fraught, but my husband does most of these.

I do get angry at the attitude that women are assumed as the primary carers and a woman is 'lucky' to have a husband that helps, or does 50/50 with you. I always point this out ie how unfair and sexist this is if anyone says something along these lines.

I also get angry that women are judged for their decisions. Families need to be able to make the right decision for them without being beaten over the head with the 'you're a shit parent' stick.

Oh and finally - someone gave me some good advice. Never apologise if you have to leave. State the situation, handover what to need to and tell them how you plan to manage your workload. That has helped me immensely as has my blackberry as I can respond to emails so the perception is I am committed etc etc.

[Convex]

> I'm trying to see why a company would be

> interested in "making it work" for working mums.

> There is the bigger piece around women needing to

> have babies for the society to continue, but other

> than the social responsibility aspect, what is the

> real benefit for companies to have us working mums

> doing part-time/ sensible hours when they have a

> long queue of capable and willing counterparts?

> After all, no one is irreplaceable in the

> corporate world, no matter how senior you are!

Well. It's discriminatory otherwise first of all. And flexible working has to work from both the company and the employee side, so different arrangements will suit different types of businesses. I have turned down 3-day requests on business grounds, we compromised on 4, and we compromised on which day was the off day.

And why lose the experience and knowledge of these people just because they have a life outside of work. Everyone has commitments outside of work. It's a bit crap that I would honestly be more comfortable leaving due to a burst boiler type scenario than a sick child. Bonkers.

Aside from that I am very committed to my company and give my all for them and I expect the same from them.

And - having to leave on time makes me more efficient with my day. I work less hours now, though still some longer days if a high workload, and I can honestly say I get through more work than I used to, I have become more organised, better at prioritising and better at judging how long to spend on something. So my commitments outside of work have focused my working style into something that I honestly think is better. So shorter days doesn't mean less work gets done!

[esme]

I like quite a few had a bad experience when returning to work (which was local handily) - someone else was doing my job and I was basically demoted to below the office junior having been the office manager (wonder if my ex boss is reading - not that he would feel remotely bad or that he did anything wrong) for 6+ years. I then found a decent job but it is in West London, quite a daily commute when you add drop off and pick up. However, that said my boss now is wonderful. Yes he has his faults but he has 2 young sons and is incredibly supportive (e.g. let me work from home for a week recently when my son had his tonsils out). Makes such a difference. Despite being more tired from travelling and longer day I am happy and feel my work is appreciated.

All in all, I find it shattering trying to balance work (FT job) with being a mum and doing stuff around the house. My hubby works a bit of a way away so gets back late-ish and I have to wash up and cook each eve, and do laundry. We now have a cleaner which helps massively but agree it is draining and I feel constantly tired (gosh I love a good moan haha)...

That said I am glad I have my gorgeous son, I feel I have a lot in life overall, and we're lucky compared to lots of people out there (anyone watched "Toughest Place to Be a..." on BBC2 series? Great documentary comparing people who work here with remote places - e.g. cabbie here went to Mumbai).

*Mental note - get out more!!* speaking of which is anyone going to the clothes swap event Sunday at EDT? Sounds like fun and some of the entry fee goes to a children's cancer charity :)

[ClareC]

It isn't easy.....

I work 3 days each week, also in legal (Solicitor not Barrister).

I am extremely lucky in many respects, I have a really good job that is interesting and pays at market rate - rare in the legal profession! My partner does the drop off's and pick up's on the days I work and I take full responsibility the other days. He works for himself and from home so he simply engineers meetings to be held on my non work days or alternatively where he is unable to do this I work from home giving him more flexibility. Added to this we have amazing childcare. Everything is about as good as it could be.

The negative side is that my position is basically a full time one squashed into 3 days, its also a senior position. The reality is therefore that I get 3 days pay, rarely take lunch and more often than not get contacted on my days off including holidays. With modern technology it's hard to be "unavailable". The company even schedules Board Meetings (which I have to attend)on days I don't work!

Sometimes I feel I would be better off increasing my days and at least getting paid!

I enjoy work and enjoy being with the children but don't seem to have enough time at either! A 8 day week would be perfect ;) 3 days work 4 days children and 1 day house/me stuff!

[bluesuperted]

WorkingMummy - off topic but what do you mean saying you get 'zero' paid maternity? I do some self employed work and therefore received maternity allowance when first and now second child were born. Obviously it's only a statutory sum (c.?5000 per child) but it's definitely not zero!

[ClareC]

I was self employed during both my pregnancies, yes Maternity Allowance of @ ?5k is paid.

[Monkey]

Been back at work ft since baby was four months. 7.30am to 5.00pm (as I have to pick up). What I can't cope with is the feeling of exhaustion that never leaves me. My company is against part time or home working. Currently thinking of getting another job but really worried they won't let me go at 5.00pm? Interested to her your views on whether to mention it at interview or wait until I start?

[WorkingMummy]

ClareC a genuine 3 day week (ie requiring 3 days' worth of work) would be my ideal if do-able. V hard to make happen.

I love the idea of a new "8th day" mummy sabbath.

To pick up what others have said about statutory maternity pay - you are right of course, not zero. But it is not necessarily ?5000 either. It's ?137 per week. Only if you and your family can afford for you to earn ?137 per week for a whole 9 months will you get ?5000.

I'm the only earner in the family. We can't live off ?137 per week. That's not the food bill. So I took about 2 weeks off each time. It was not worth the paper work for me to claim ?274. So I didn't.

[Piaf]

Another thing that frustrates me as self employed (as is husband) is the discrimination in child care costs ie you can only utilise childcare vouchers if employed ... For someone in WM position as sole earner but needing child care, it seems unfair that she (or indeed,I) cannot enjoy te tax break that would help ease nanny childminder nursery costs

[uptime]

Gosh, there are a lot of lawyers on the EDF. I am one too. I have the opposite of the 'hiding the shoes' problem in that my toddler barely gives me a cursory glance when I walk out the door in the morning. She has formed a much stronger bond with my husband who does pickups and days off when sick etc. That's pretty hard for me to take, but I love my job, and as a part-owner of the firm, there are pressures on me. Having a child has definitely affected external (client) perceptions of me. If we are lucky enough to have another, I will be putting sabbatical leave on my OOO rather than maternity leave. I find that quite sad.

[amydown]

Hi Piaf,

Would you be able to claim at least part of the childcare costs as tax deductible expenses? I'm not sure what the rules are and whether HMRC have a view on this but without childcare, you can't work (and generate revenue), so it seems non-sensical not to get any tax deductions through your business?

Piaf Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Another thing that frustrates me as self employed

> (as is husband) is the discrimination in child

> care costs ie you can only utilise childcare

> vouchers if employed ... For someone in WM

> position as sole earner but needing child care, it

> seems unfair that she (or indeed,I) cannot enjoy

> te tax break that would help ease nanny

> childminder nursery costs

[Piaf]

I think you may be able to claim back something as an expense (though my otherwise crafty accountants have never mentioned it) and I think that the recent Government proposal ... You know the one that caused a bit of a stir on the EDF when a sahm (ED and another barrister. Not that I agreed with her)harangued Clegg ... Will apply to both employed and self employed. However on nothing like the scale of childcare vouchers. What annoys me is that the vouchers are available to the employed no matter how much they earn but nothing similar for self-employed. It's a shame as the idea behind the vouchers is great especially as they apply to both parents and therefore less divisive?

[Polly D]

Another Guardian link:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2013/apr/20/choosing-between-child-and-career

[amydown]

Prolly D, thank you for posting the link to that article. As it happens, I had just bought a suitcase online as I'm expecting a few trips out of town over the next few weeks! Last week, I went on an overnight trip out of town and at around 7pm, I was on Skype at Paddingtom station, saying good night to my boys. My younger one, at only 15m, kept trying to kiss the phone and I got so upset.

Next Friday, on my non-working day, I'm going to be out of town again. Childcare was difficult to arrangement, has now been sorted but oh boy. The stress of it all.

80% of the time, I think and feel that it's working for us but sometimes, like the Skype moment, I really do feel like giving it all up. I have a wonderfully supportive husband and excellent and flexible childcare in place so it's a case of getting over the emotional guilt.... (Not having any momey left after childcare and travel costs, etc doesn help).

It's too damn complicated......