Working mums - how are you finding it all?

[amydown]

There is a similar debate on the childcare thread and I wondered how everyone is finding it really. I work for a professional services firm, and have been back at work for about 8 months now after No. 2.

The company I work for is really trying to get diversity/ gender balance right and I wanted to get the forumites' thoughts on how you find it, if you tried it and gave up, what was the deciding factor and what could your employer have done differently (within reason!) that would have helped you continue with your career?

Also an opportunity to moan and share!

[canela]

mmm, pertinent question. was thinking today how difficult it is. i work full time, husband part-time, and what i hate is coming home and being tired and only trying to get the kids into bed as quickly as possible so that i can get on and do more work which I have to do in the evening. rather than be able to relax and enjoy my time with them. 5 days a week all i get is breakfasts and bedtimes - not that much time for fun. and when i'm not working then my husband has to take advantage and do some.

i did take a long time off after 2 kids and it was so much harder than expected to get a job again afterwards. suppose partly to do with economic climate etc, plus my own naive young self that thought work was about making a positive difference to the world (charity sector) rather than being able to raise a family.

i find it tough going

[oimissus]

I have recently started my first office-based job since having Miss Oi, who is 3. Handily, it was advertised as part-time and my boss is happy for me to do my weekly hours however I choose - at the moment I am doing 3 seven and a half hours days - so I'm not in that situation when you go from full to part-time in the same job but basically have to do the same hours in less.

But, it is the ONLY part-time job I have seen advertised, and I've been looking for 2 years (I've been doing freelance work 2 days a week for a year but that only covered nursery and was more for my own sanity - a natural SAHM I am not, even though I did it for 2 years). I do feel very lucky that I've got it, my salary has doubled (which isn't saying much!), it's guaranteed and I get sick, holiday, pension etc.

Mr Oi's place have been pretty reasonable. As I said on the other thread, he's doing pick-up and drop-off for the first 3 months until I get past my probationary when I will feel more comfortable in jiggling my hours around - so no unpaid overtime from him (but that's only the 3 days I work). He has a big project coming up which in previous years has involved 2 weeks of 12-13 hour days - how this is going to work this year I don't know, I simply won't be able to do my contracted hours if I'm doing drop-off and pick-up. But he's in a very strong position where he is, so hopefully he can dictate how he wants to handle this.

With my job I feel very lucky, I can do the 3 days while Miss Oi is at nursery but when she starts school I could swap to 5 shorter days perhaps - it's the logistics that are so tricky. But I have very pleased to be properly back at work, I found being a SAHM very hard and I should never have done it for so long, don't think it did me or Miss Oi any favours!

[amydown]

Canela, I sympathise with you. The bit about breakfast and bedtime thing and wishing them to fall asleep quickly so that you can log back on for more work (as I have done this morning! Now work finished and I can be EDF'ing :).

I find it tough and that's with a very flexible and quality childcare, supportive husband and supportive work. It is financially non-sensible and when things are working "well", I feel it's ok. The minute I get a bit of stress at work, my default position is "what am I doing this for!?!?"

It's part financial (nothing left after paying for childcare!) and part emotional (no time to relax, too stressed all the time and worried about work), having to micro-manage my life to the nth degree is rather stressful.

Having said all that, oimissus, like you, I'm not a natural SAHM. I'm pretty domestically challenged in all aspects actually.....

[canela]

I loved being a SAHM but when husband got made redundant I had to step up to the mark.

We can't afford to pay childcare so he does freelance work around preschool allowance and my hours. I do enjoy my days at work, but I just feel I come home tired and lacking in the necessary patience and energy to handle two small bundles of chaos. If I didn't have to work in the evenings I think it would be fine. However, I suppose if I did have a better paid job then I wouldn't be able to leave at 5 or 5:30 like I do now and get back for bedtime....

[oimissus]

that's the thing, Mr Oi's work does not routinely expect long hours, but he's not exactly paid a hill of beans for his age and experience, and I'm paid even less. But we aren't terribly ambitious either - oh dear, not a good SAHM, not a career woman - where does that leave me?!

[canela]

the third way? a happy medium? muddling along like most of us?

[midivydale]

Hi, I am a few weeks in after returning from a 12 month mat leave with number 1. What an emotional rollercoaster it has been! Before I had my son I was fiercly ambitious and very focused on my career. I changed after my son was born and if I had the option financially to be at home with him, I would "give up" my job in a heartbeat.

I never expected to feel so attached as I have, have always seen myself as a working mother, one of those "women can have it all types" who juggle a high powered job with cupcake baking.

But I have changed in a way I could never have imagined. I see stay at home mums and I feel an acute pain in my heart. I want to be with my son ALL the time.

I find my days in the city EASIER though than being at home. I get to wear a dress, high heels, lipstick and people actually listen and take note of what I say (or at least they pretend too). I get to drink hot coffee, someone else even makes it for me (!?) and I can go and "powder my nose" whenever I want.

But I would trade it for chubby little banana covered fingers and sloppy kisses in a heartbeat if I had the choice.

I cant think about my son at work as I will break down in tears and my poor childminder finds herself under my constant scruitany.

This morning, my son tried to hide my shoes so that I couldnt go to work and it breaks my heart.

So, this was alot more emotional and probably not at all what the OP was asking.

I will get back on the practical side of things and workplace attitudes - but now I should do some of that work.....

To all mummies and daddies, whether you are at home or at work. You are doing a great job, the guilt is constant but try to find comfort from the fact that you are doing your best.

My dad (a very wise man) always says "dont ever underestimate your best efforts, it is good enough".

[Trish]

Very tough. I want to be at home giving my children cuddles!

[Saila]

I love going back to work

I find my self so incredibly bored by the groundhog dayness of being a sahm

It just doesn't suit me and it makes me feel slightly resentful and negative...

I find the 'sloppy kisses and fun' begins once I get my life back. I enjoy motherhood so much more when I get a break from it!

Work is a piece of p1ss relative to being at home all day - I guess I'm not a natural sahm either :)

Whoop to work!! (only been back 2 days since number 2 - perhaps this feeling won't last!)

[alieh]

I work full time and do love it. But I have quite a bit of flexibility with my hours - much of the time I get in at 9:30 and leave at 5:00, but then there are also periods where I travel or need to do loads of work in the evenings. I feel like the balance is working right now. I actually prefer working 5 days per week than 4 days (which I used to do between baby 1 & 2). With my 4 day/week job it was really just trying to do a full time job in 80% of the time and I felt like I was always rushing around and apologising.

I did used to work in professional services too but left (long before children) to work in the charity sector. I think it helps that I love my job. But then I pretty much hated everything about my professional services job except the money! I would have seriously resented working long hours in that job, being away from my children, etc. whereas in my current job I feel the balance is just right.

One of the most important factors is I think being in my late 30s I feel I have more experience and confidence to perhaps work less hours than some of my younger colleagues who are trying to "make a name for themselves." 10 years ago I would have felt much more compelled to put in more face time, etc. Perhaps the only advantage to my having waited a while to have children!

[sbain]

I am back about a month and a half after #2. I work a 4-day week so nearly full time. I have the added complication that my second child has many many medical appointments so I am trying to juggle which appts our wonderful nanny can take him to and which really require my presence. So I am really struggling with that as tbh I want to go to everything - which at the moment is OK but in the long term may not be doable while also holding down a job. Thus far the company I work for have been amazing - allowing me to take as much time off as I need and never making any comment when I inform them of yet another appointment. Hopefully this won't change.

The thing that I think is key is childcare - when I first went back to work after having my first child - the nanny I hired and my son just didn't gel - she also struggled understandably with the very long hours (7:30AM - 7PM 4 days a week). I found the period that we employed her very stressful and difficult. However after she left we luckily found the wonderful nanny who still looks after my boys and she is great - they love her - she is endlessly cheerful and great fun.. This makes my life so much easier as I am confident that the kids are happy and well looked after.

[KatDew]

I feel I'm lucky in this one. I have a job that I can do 3 days a week without it affecting my preformance. I have a husband who can help with drop off and pick ups and my mother incredibly kindly looks after my twins one day a week. This means my twins are only in nursery 2 days a week.

I worked hard to get my career going before I had kids. If I walked away from it when my children were tiny there really wouldn't be the option to go back a few years later.

I realise though not everyone is as lucky. Some jobs don't work as well part time and lots of peoples partners work very long hours making the bedtime times and drop off very difficult.

I'm not sure there is a perfect answer. I really enjoy my time at home but I also know if I was a SAHM I think I would go slightly crazy. That doesn't make me feel any less guilty when on occasions my 'working mum juggling act' comes up short.

Over the years I have met more Mum's of older children who have regretted giving up their careers that I have met Mum's who kept their careers going and wish that they hadn't..... but then I could just be hearing what I want to hear.

[amydown]

It's really interesting to hear everyone's stories. The key theme coming out, not surprisingly, is that it's incredibly tough! We seem to be falling into two camps broadly - ones that saw their priorities change after having kids and ones that still have career ambitions after kids.

Apart from being relatively flexible with your working hours, have you seen any schemes or tangible policies that your employers have or you wish to see that could make your life that bit easier? For instance, my company pays a contribution towards childcare costs if I have to work on my non-working day and I can have my nanny registered for that childcare so that my kids are not just left with a stranger they don't know as "emergency chilcare".

[WorkingMummy]

I completely understand the sense of regret and sadness over the "breakfast and bedtime/when I am in a rush and/or exhausted" thing.

I am lucky to be self-employed (barrister) which gives me a degree of choice and flexibility about work. But I have the breakfast/bedtime restraint whenever I am appearing in court for a stretch (up to three months). I get through those times by going to bed as early as possible myself, so that I am well rested when I wake up. I get up a little early, to be ready for work before the kids are awake and then when they do wake up, I put work out of my mind until 8am, and I am just there with them. Ditto in the evenings. I actually took the clock out of the girls' room, and I never wear a watch or have a phone near me at bedtime, so that I cannot rush them for the sake of work. I let them take as long as they need over bath, stories, cuddles in bed etc and I give them that time each night without holding back at all. I just put work out of my head and don't even check the time until they are asleep.

This, plus being in bed by 10pm most nights, may, on occasions, mean I do slightly less work on a particular project then I would if I was not a mother. But I have made a conscious decision that, since work has me all day, work can pay that price! Experience has shown me that this is what is best for both me and the kids AND my work, as it happens. Keeps me thinking nice and straight.

I have found that this strategy leaves me with two, very roomy, unrushed slots with the children every day. And it has made things a lot easier.

I also have a rule of absolutely no work at the weekends. Ever.

[KatDew]

I think to be fair to everyone, most peoples priorities change when they have children.

I also think that you have to take into account how much people were enjoying their career before they had children. There is also the complication of finances, not everyone has the luxury of being able to afford to be a SAHM even if that is what they would actually prefer.

I was brought up believing women 'could have it all' and I do believe we were slightly mis-sold! Having children and maintaining a career is more complicated than I expected. More often than not women take on more of the compromises and seem to do more of the 'juggling'.

[midivydale]

Working mummy - that is EXACTLY what i do. No watch at all and letting little one take as long as he takes in the evening, i am also in bed by 10 to make sure I am okish for his early wakeup.

Interesting that we have the same coping strategy!

[etta166]

I agree with Saila. I find that working part time make me appreciate both my job and being a mother more. It's obviously very difficult to balance everything, and I do find that I have made more compromises in terms of career pregression and other aspects of my life than my husband which can make me very angry at times.

I'm just about to start maternity leave for the 3rd time, and I'm planning to take the full year off this time around (having previously mamaged just under 6 months the last two times before I wanted to be back at work). I'm not a natural SAHM and I'm quite daunted by the prosepect of doing it for a year. Having said that, I won't have the chance to be at home again, so I want to make the most of it.

I don't think I'd be happy if I worked longer hours than I currently do, or if I worked shorter hours either. There's a "right" solution out there for each family somewhere between 100% at home and working full time.

[Piaf]

WM interesting post as I too am a barrister and have just stopped before having no 2... I think you have many pluses by being self employed in that I consciously cut back when I returned from no 1 and stopped working (generally) in the evenings or weekends whilst being available five days a week in 'normal' working hours

The balance was more or less working but I do feel it has meant that my career has suffered as opposed to my husbands (also a barrister) or those colleagues with stay at home wives or without children. But I felt that the advantages - time with my daughter whilst also working- outweighed the negatives. This time I feel it is going to be much harder as I stopped being instructed a great deal earlier (as couldn't see cases to the end) and I fear it will take a long time if ever to get my practice back when I return. This in turn impacts on confidence itself a vicious circle!

So, I am not sure how much of the difficulties are created by inflexible working conditions (arguably not something I have to cope with) rather than attitudes and outlooks, our own and generally.

[WorkingMummy]

V interesting Piaf!

There are challenges to being self-employed. Within self-employment, challenges vary with what you do. In the law, practice area can make a big difference.

The big downer with being self-employed, is zero paid maternity leave (which a lot of my friends cannot compute when I have responded to their criticisms for returning to work so soon each time). I absolutely get the equation: returning your cases in time for the baby = winding down your practice very early, and then not accepting work for a period + not knowing how long it will take you to get things up and running with a good cash flow if and when you return = ??? what? for the future.

I didn't really have that, though. Because of various health issues my husband has had, I am the sole bread winner for my family. But he can't do the childcare either. With no maternity pay, it was either not have children (no way!) or have children but don't give up work. So, I worked to the wire and then was back at my desk (off and on, when cases needed servicing) within 7 days each time. When I say the wire, I mean, the wire. I was not working a 90 hour week (by week 36, I was not even working a 30 hour week), but if something needed doing, I had to do it. So with my first baby, I was into early labour, with real contractions, when I emailed an instructing solicitor from home to say, "Er, the attached skeleton argument is 90% there, but you and the silk are going to need to finish it. I'm about to give birth." Had my daughter about 15 hours later.

BUT on the plus side, I have a lot of flexibility now. I look at mothers who are - say - partners in law firms, where you actually have a profit/loss responsibility to the firm, plus responsibility towards staff, and I think, "How do they do that? And how lucky am I?" I have a good relationship with my clerks. I can say yes and no to the work I want. Within certain restrictions (and aside from court work - which for me is not the dominant feature of my time) I can work whenever and wherever the hell I want AND, the biggest bonus for me, when I DO work, it is money directly into my back pocket for the family. I am not working to earn money for someone else.

I completely understand what you say about comparing yourself with your peers who are not mothers (inc your husband). Sometimes I ask myself, if my situation was different, would I have done it differently, taken more time off? Would I be working now? Truth probably is: I'd have wanted to do it exactly the same, but wouldn't have, because of the guilt/social expectation etc etc. Economic necessity denied me the choice, but I cannot complain. More than once when I have been working on an interesting argument late into the night, with a newborn asleep in the room next door, I've thought, "Look at what I have! Everything I love within a radius of 5 yards from me."

Edited to say: PS: This all will certainly have an effect on my career. My application for QC, if and when I make it, will be 5, maybe even 10 years later than it otherwise would be. I simply do not carry the caseload necessary to collect 12 judicial references within any 2 year period. This used to bother me. It doesn't now. I feel like my cup is full. I have a great life. It's working now and it is what I and the kids need now. Career progression can wait.

[amydown]

Workingmumm and Piaf, it's interesting to hear your stories and how you seem to be juggling it all. I guess I hadn't really considered the pros and cons of being self employed.

Etta166, I know what you mean about the feelings of "anger" sometimes. We have been brought up to think men and women are equal, but when the majority of childcare responsibility falls onto women still(whether that's organising childcare and taking primary responsibility for nursery pick-up,etc or actually staying at home), it's hard to see how we can continue our career progression at the same speed as child-less women or men.

I'm trying to see why a company would be interested in "making it work" for working mums. There is the bigger piece around women needing to have babies for the society to continue, but other than the social responsibility aspect, what is the real benefit for companies to have us working mums doing part-time/ sensible hours when they have a long queue of capable and willing counterparts? After all, no one is irreplaceable in the corporate world, no matter how senior you are!

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Didn't Addison the cab company try to make it work for parents ?

[amydown]

midivydale Wrote:

>

> This morning, my son tried to hide my shoes so

> that I couldnt go to work and it breaks my heart.

>

Oh, Midivydale, that makes me all teary!

[midivydale]

I know:(

[crystal7]

In a word- hard! Especially so since I returned to work after baby 2. The kids are in different settings so that's x2 pick ups and drop offs mostly done by me. The.beginning and end of the day is really fraught. I feel constantly pressured trying to keep up with full time colleagues on work days and trying to be supermum on my days off (ha!). I work 3 days per week which I know is Lucky. I actually enjoy the job but the rushing around in the mornings and evenings makes it more stressful than it needs to be. I wouldn't want to work full time, would miss the kids (4 and 1.5) and the thought of not working is scary but I do think part time is hard. I work most evenings. My eldest starts school in Sept and that will complicate things further!