Southwark Primary School Admissions for Sept 2013

[Emski]

ticket2ride Wrote:

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> This could be interpreted as east Dulwich parents

> being disproportionately unrealistic about which

> schools they are likely to get.

Or, like me, they put down their closest six schools and didn't get offered a place in any of them. We live under 500m from Goodrich, put that down as our top preference, but would have been happy with a place at any of our 6 choices. We weren't being unrealistic, or even trying to outsmart the system in any way. We did exactly what we were supposed to do.

Some of us have been very badly let down by this system. Please don't suggest in some way that it's our fault.

[Otta]

Nothing but sympathy for people in your position Emski, but I have also spoken to people who are angry because they felt that beiong given 6 "choices" should mean they can put down the 6 best schools and expect to be given a place in one of them. I have little sympathy for them.

[ticket2ride]

I have sympathy with this situation.

Is there a need for more schools? Possibly.

Do parents want more Harris schools? As Renata Hamvas posted on April 18 that 3 Harris primaries still had places, it would appear not.

Emski Wrote:

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>

> Or, like me, they put down their closest six

> schools and didn't get offered a place in any of

> them.

[kamath]

Thank you Emski - very well said. I am in the same position and did the same as you. The system in my opinion is unfair.

[LondonMix]

There is a shortage of local places but what do you find unfair exactly?

[Fuschia]

The fragmentation of school place planning and diversion of resources to free schools rather than on the basis of need, is the underlying reason for the place shortage

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/education/looming-crisis-of-118000-pupils-without-a-london-school-place-by-2016-8584430.html

[LondonMix]

Okay, I understand Fuschia finds the funding arrangements for creation of new schools unfair (and I don't entirely disagree).

However, I'm intereseted to know if Kamath was saying the way places are being allocated locally is unfair in someway that I'm not aware of. Besides the faith schools, I think all of our local primaries allocate places according to chidlren in care / with special needs, followed by siblings and then distance for all applicants.

[Fuschia]

Extracts from the report of the Academies Commission

'Planning school places in a diversified system

The Commission shares the widespread and serious concerns about planning for school places. We agree with the government that popular and successful schools should be allowed to expand. We note that the current barriers to expansion are often matters of capital spending rather than revenue, and we are concerned that, in some areas, the inability of local authorities to direct academies to expand will create significant problems of supply, since there are few incentives for schools to expand. A local planning function is needed, not only to ensure sufficient places

Unleashing greatness ? getting the best from an academised system in the right places ? and certainly to protect provision for vulnerable groups of pupils ? but also to serve the needs of local people. No serious evidence has been presented that operating a local market in terms of school places will provide places where they are needed at the times they are needed. Dr Rebecca Allen of the Institute of Education noted in oral evidence that the market, as presently structured, has no incentives for providers to move into particularly challenging areas.

Local authorities retain responsibility for ensuring a supply of sufficient school places. The LGiU?s report (Thraves et al. 2012) expresses some scepticism that the government could secure sufficient school

places in every locality without a local partner with local knowledge, connections and influence; its report also questions whether market forces ? the entry of new school providers ? could create, on their own, sufficient school places. The direction of policy since 2005 has been to liberalise school supply by bringing in a range of new providers.

Proponents of free market processes argue that where there is a substantial surplus of places, liberalising supply in these areas could empower parents and act as a mechanism for more responsive schooling. However, where there are shortages ? as is increasingly the case in parts of the south east in primary provision ? there are no strong incentives in the system encouraging new supply in those areas where it is most needed. The experiences of early Free School applications confirm this: such applications have not always been closely linked to areas where there is a shortage of school places, and in some places have been located in areas of surplus. Providing incentives for schools to expand is challenging, as Rebecca Allen and Simon Burgess (2012) have pointed out.

Some local authorities are using diversification to find imaginative solutions to providing sufficient school places, but there are challenges. No academy can be required to expand its intake. However, there are clear signs that some academies will seek to maintain their current size and so additional school places will need to be met from the smaller number of community schools. The government has recognised some of the perverse incentives in the system and is considering ways of providing incentives for academies to continue to expand; it also draws attention to examples ? which are striking but few ? in which excellent schools (such as Cuckoo Hall in Enfield) have used the academy programme to open new provision.

The Commission is not persuaded, however, that the local market, on its own, provides a satisfactory basis for securing a sufficient supply of quality school places in the medium term.

[kamath]

Sorry Londonmix -unfair is the wrong choice of words. I am just upset.

[LondonMix]

It's a terrible situation. I hope it all works out for. Good luck!

[henryb]

Any kind of public service provision which varies in quality depending on which street you live on can easily be described as unfair. However oversubscribed schools have to make the selection somehow. What is clear is another school or two is needed in the area.

[intexasatthe moment]

Interesting extract Fuschia . Depressing and not surprising .

The situation makes it ever less attractive for schools to retain their community status - they'll have to expand ,while Academies don't ,and will have to rely on shrinking support from LA's .

How can LA's meet their responsibilities to provide sufficient school places ?

PS Fuschia your post needs editing to remove the duplication . Said hoping more people will read it if shorter !

[Fuschia]

Oops

Posted via phone

[zamboo]

Lightweight - re: Judith Kerr, this year only they are operating outside the local authority admissions, so you can actually accept the place offered to you by the council and the place offered to you by Judith Kerr without fear of losing either. From 2014 this will no longer be the case, and parents will need to select it via the council as with other primary schools.

[number 2]

I have to say Zamboo, that I think keeping 2 places (one local authority, one not) is a little unfair, no matter what Judith Kerr school says. I can understand why people might do it (hedging their bets if they suddenly can't afford school fees, decide a free school is not for them, find that the school is not yet built!), but there are people out there who are stuck on waiting lists for their schools, in horrible states of limbo without a place at even one of their 6 choices. I'm speaking from personal experience here (see my thread of last week) - we are 4th on the list for our 1st choice which is our closest school by far. We are more or less entirely dependent on people being fair and acknowledging that they don't need a place because they have a better offer outside the Southwark admission process. To me, people sitting on 2 places just seems so, so unfair to me, and I'm pretty sure I'd feel the same if I was opting out of the community state school system. There, I've said it.

[zamboo]

number 2 - I meant only until they had officially announced the exact location, which would be a deciding factor in choosing the school for some people. I wasn't suggesting that anyone should keep places in other schools for longer than it would take to decide after this, and nor has the school. I think it would be equally unfair to expect someone to turn down a good place that they had been offered by the local authority only to discover that the location of the new free school was impossible for them to get to. At the moment the announcement for the location of this particular school hasn't come. Nobody has suggested that you should keep two places simultaneously at the expense of others on waiting lists. At the moment, only provisional offers for Judith Kerr have gone out, and it was the acceptance of these that I was referring to. I thought that it was this issue that Lightweight was referring to.

[lightweight]

For what it's worth, we rejected our place at JKPS a week ago. I received a follow up email from the provisional offer letter in the post and it left too many questions unanswered that I decided not to risk it by accepting the place.

I suppose there will be some parents that say yes to JKPS as well as their allocated school via the CAF process because they will want to know the exact location of JKPS before rejecting the place. It doesn't help that the system is set up so it is possible to have 2 places for a school. I do think JKPS should firm up their details sooner otherwise it's tempting to say yes to both, however unethical that may be...

[number 2]

Fair enough Zamboanga. I probably misread your post. It's what I'm dreading - that people will be sitting on places rather than letting southwark know that they don't need a place. Sorry if I misunderstood.

[zamboo]

number 2 - no offence taken. It's the chronic shortage of good places and the uncertainty of the application process that makes everyone passionate about it.

[James Barber]

The school place crisis is partly around local authorities not encouraging free school providers to build new schools where they are needed and partly about closes schools in the past. The latter doesn't apply to Southwark recent (last 15 year) history.

We need 2-3 new local schools. ED cllrs have encouraged Judith Kerr to site locally and have persuaded Harris Federation to apply for two new local primary schools. These together would solve our primary school place crisis.

Harris Primary schools located away from East Dulwich - two in Peckham and one in Haringey- might well have spare places. But I'm really not sure the relevence to East Dulwich.

Or is someone suggesting ED kids should be forced to take up places over the statutory 2miles in Peckham?

Zamboo, Couldnt agree more we don't yet have universally good or outstanding schools which would really help.

[GinaG3]

Posting my question again from page 6 in the hope anyone can offer me an answer.

If I reject my offer and start homeschooling my daughter until a place is found is this a viable option and are southwark still obligated to find a place if I'm homeschooling? I'm a stay at home mum so I'm able to do this as an option. If a place is never found, what am I to do then, if I didn't intend to homeschool for the whole of primary years?

If I leave the offer open with Langbourne, it will be as though I've accepted. I understand that I will remain on my top 6 waiting lists and see if a place gets offered. Come September when she will be due to start Langbourne but doesn't turn up what will happen? I have every intention of homeschooling as my ONLY option until another place is offered, I don't want to send her to a inaccessible and frankly unfeasible school that she will either a) have to remain in, as there as no other places or b) move from within the first year due to another place being offered.

I understand the deadline to reject an offer is this Thursday?!

Any help hugely appreciated.

[lightweight]

Gina - has anyone from the council's schools admissions advised you? I would be wary taking advice from the Forum on what is a complicated matter, just in case you are given information that may not be 100% correct.

[GinaG3]

No, no advise. Intended to get to Cator Street for meeting last week but couldn't make it at any time. Pre-school are advising me my daughter can stay on there until January but no longer.

Who is best to talk to about it all?

[Renata Hamvas]

In terms of building a new school you need a location. The reason why Southwark Free school was not set up in SE1 was because a location couldn't be found in the Borough area, so they are currently using the Ledbury Tenants and Residents Hall for the school (SE15). They are hoping to relocate at some point to Rotherhithe (SE16). In order for Judith Kerr to divulge where they will be based, they need to have found and finalised a site.

Yes there are two Harris Primary's in Peckham one was an existing school that became an Academy (Peckham Park) ie not a new Free School. The other one, was created on the site of Academy@Peckham, an existing Harris Secondary. Harris have said that their two secondary schools in ED are too small to accommodate a primary. The other Free school that has been discussed on here, Haberdasher's Aske Free School is also on the site of an existing Secondary.

The issue of ED is actually finding a site to put a school. This is probably why Judith Kerr has focused on Herne Hill rather than East Dulwich. It's not easy to find a solution to this, the areas which have the greatest difficulty with primary school places tend to be close to a park or a cemetery. There are no empty school buildings that can easily be brought back into use either. |The only one I knew of in the area was St Thomas More Hall (former St Anthony's School Site) this was investigated but unfortunately is too small even for a one form entry primary. There are currently sufficient primary school places in Southwark, but unfortunately it's the location of the places which is the issue.

Hi Gina, by offering you Langbourne, Southwark has fulfilled their obligation. Yes, you still remain on the waiting list of the schools you applied to. I hope you have now put your name down on the lists for other primary schools too (if not please do so urgently!). In September the lists will move from the LA to the schools, so you'll need to contact the schools then. When is your daughter's birthday. She needs to start school/home schooling by the start of the term after she turns 5. The other thing to investigate is whether any other children living close to you are going to Langbourne and whether they could take your daughter there.

Renata

[lightweight]

I called for advice last week and had all my questions answered swiftly by phone and later by email.

I would call as it's quite near the deadline of Thursday.

Admissions and Appeals Team (Lewisham)

020 8314 8282

[email protected]

School Admissions (Southwark)

020 7525 5337

[email protected]