Derelict Grove Tavern

[apbremer]

When will something be done about this depressing eyesore? Can a few stupid heads not be knocked together?

[ruffers]

Well there's quite a lot going on there tomorrow...

https://www.instagram.com/p/ChDCP0aM0jL/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

[Siduhe]

The situation with the actual Grove Tavern building isn't going to change for as long as Stonegate has a valid lease for the site (which it does) and the Dulwich Estate doesn't want to try and terminate it early, which they don't because the Council has made it clear they will not support redevelopment of the site for high end housing (which is what the Dulwich Estate wants to do).

The Council has put forward plans for an elder care facility or social housing, but the Dulwich Estate isn't up for that (or at least wasn't last time I spoke to our councillors). And everyone seems to be pretty happy with the current use of the site by Grove DIY including the council and some neighbours who were a little sceptical when the group started up, but have very much come round to what they are doing.

[AllisonAdler]

How utterly depressing. It's not really a suitable place for a care home facility, being on a major junction, and it's sad not to have the nice pub that once flourished there. Can't really get my head around the willingness to leave a hideously ugly eyesore in the middle of a really nice part of our neighbourhood (with the woods right across the road and the lovely church on the corner (albeit itself in need of some attention to the outbuildings). It would also be nice if Lewisham and Southwark got a grip on the rampant graffiti that seems suddenly to be everywhere. Gosh.

[heartblock]

Turn it into a skate park and music venue.

[malumbu]

Skate park was buzzing when I just cycled past, as was Horniman with the festival.

As for an entertainment venue only ever went in the Garden, which was a plus. No idea why it closed

[Cyclemonkey]

There is a music event at the Horniman - Days Like These - part of the Lewisham Borough of Culture.

[alice]

It’s actually the perfect spot for social housing, great access to public transport, parks, schools etc. Including an elderly care home in the complex and maybe a supermarket. It would bring more trade to the shops in that part of lordship lane. It would certainly be better than the dangerous and invasive plans for rooftop developments. Southwark new build social housing is so slow - they’ve been celebrating 10000 new homes for years with a tiny % being built. Their target is the carrot and we are donkeys.

[Bic Basher]

I thought I could hear the music from Hornimans today, but it must have been the Skate Park event. Still wasn't loud to be distracting.

[Nigello]

How utterly depressing. It's not really a suitable place for a care home facility, being on a major junction, and it's sad not to have the nice pub that once flourished there. Can't really get my head around the willingness to leave a hideously ugly eyesore in the middle of a really nice part of our neighbourhood (with the woods right across the road and the lovely church on the corner (albeit itself in need of some attention to the outbuildings). It would also be nice if Lewisham and Southwark got a grip on the rampant graffiti that seems suddenly to be everywhere. Gosh.

 

The only way to get the council to act is to email the local councillor. You can also ask individual landlords or business owners to clean up their vandalised property. Give it a go.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Any housing would be better than no housing. Retail/cafe on the ground floor and then 3-4 floors of housing above.

The skate park kids should get medals for what they're doing.

[dippybird]

The skate park guys are doing a fantastic job. I live local and fully support them. Well done guys!

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Why does Stonegate carry on paying rent on a lease without operating a business? Is it a very long lease and they're gambling they'll be able to get change of use and then sell out?

[DulwichSociety]

You can support the brilliant work the skaters are doing at the derelict Grove Tavern by attending their adaptation of A Midsummer Night's Dream called A Midsummer Skate Dream on 3rd and 4th September. at 3pm and 7pm. It's part funded by the Arts Council and has a professional director. Tickets are free: https://www.instagram.com/midsummerskateplay/

[Siduhe]

Why does Stonegate carry on paying rent on a lease without operating a business? Is it a very long lease and they're gambling they'll be able to get change of use and then sell out?

 

It's a good question and I've never heard an answer that makes sense. The pub closed in 2014, due to a fire in the kitchen (and that's a whole other story with many, many local views about what happened there). As I understand it (again, no direct knowledge, just local gossip) there was a disputed insurance claim, and I can see why the pub might have laid empty while that was sorted out. What makes no sense is why nothing has happened since then.

The Dulwich Estate said a few years ago that it could do nothing while Stonegate was continuing to pay rent every year and that the lease on the pub will come to an end in 2025. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me as every commercial lease I've ever seen has a dilapidations clause in it whereby the landlord can force the tenant to bring a building in disrepair up to standards during the period of a lease as well as at the end of it.

My best guess is that there is an arrangement or understanding between the Dulwich Estate and Stonegate - limited rent, no enforcement of the dilapidations clause while the Estate work out what they want to do with the property and how to best achieve their stated aim (at least their stated aim four years ago) which was to redevelop for high-end housing. The benefit of having a tenant in there on a long lease is that they can't be forced to do anything or come under meaningful pressure from the Council or local residents.

[Sue]

You can support the brilliant work the skaters are doing at the derelict Grove Tavern by attending their adaptation of A Midsummer Night's Dream called A Midsummer Skate Dream on 3rd and 4th September. at 3pm and 7pm. It's part funded by the Arts Council and has a professional director. Tickets are free: nohttps://www.instagram.com/midsummerskateplay/

 

Sadly all tickets are sold out, as I would love to have gone and your post was the first I had heard of it.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

@Siduhe: thank you. Helpful and mysterious in equal measure!

[DulwichSociety]

Sadly all tickets are sold out, as I would love to have gone and your post was the first I had heard of it.

 

Ah sorry Sue, it has been popular which is great as these youngsters are doing good work up there; I think they are keeping a waiting list so it might be worth emailing them. Also, we would encourage anyone passing by to say hello and take a look at the skate park and also the kitchen garden they have created.

[Sue]

Sadly all tickets are sold out, as I would love to have gone and your post was the first I had heard of it.

 

Ah sorry Sue, it has been popular which is great as these youngsters are doing good work up there; I think they are keeping a waiting list so it might be worth emailing them. Also, we would encourage anyone passing by to say hello and take a look at the skate park and also the kitchen garden they have created.

 

Thanks, I will.

I didn't know they had a kitchen garden there, that's brilliant!

Where abouts is it? Can you visit? My allotment is opposite the skate park (next to the tennis club)!

[ruffers]

It's behind the trees at the back. Just turn up Sue, they're all friendly.

[Sue]

It's behind the trees at the back. Just turn up Sue, they're all friendly.

 

Excellent, I will go and look at the veg and say hello!

[ruffers]

For those interested the Midsummer Night's Skate performance over the weekend was brilliant. I don't want to come over all over emotional but as someone else said these guys deserve a medal for making something so positive out of such an eyesore.

Hopefully, speaking for myself anyway, we can continue to support them.

[Sue]

We went to this on Sunday afternoon, having been lucky enough to get tickets.

It was absolutely brilliant. The acting was outstanding. It was hard to believe that none of the actors were professional, and we were told that the whole thing had been put together in eight weeks.

Excellent direction and costumes, too. We would happily have paid for the tickets!

It was also great to see the garden at the back. What an incredible amount of hard work had gone into clearing a site which we were told had been covered in fly tipped rubbish, head high brambles and worse, and creating a beautiful and productive flower and vegetable garden.

What a contrast to the way the pub and its grounds have been left to deteriorate over the years by apparently greedy and self-interested people only out to make money by building luxury flats for the benefit of a few.

I suppose at least we may finally get the pedestrian crossing at that junction, so that the owners of the luxury flats can cross the road 😡

[Penguin68]

I believe that the Council has previously not accepted change-of-use proposals - which is why it is still a pub, if derelict. I wonder how soon the fix will be in to alter the Council's mind? The fact that it is now offering the sort of local amenity which a pub might offer could be argued as a counter to change-of-use requests, but I can't believe that local opinion, should it support that, will be in any way important in Tooley Street's deliberations.

[LadyBeatriceofDulwic]

I live in the flats next to the skateboard park. I have to say since it's arrival graffiti and noise has increased exponentially.

The sooner they redevelop the site into something meaningful like a community centre or for flats the better.