man attacked in dulwich park today II.30am by two men with scary dog

[Penguin68]

Rianoo

I do realise you are trolling this site to raise a response - but really 'jogger gets a thick lip' - where, out of thin air, with no human agency? - and, as described - rather more damage than that.

You clearly wish to associate your views with these thugs - it's is a shame that co-action can't be retrospective or joining them in spirit would entail joining them in the dock.

[JohnL]

It does happen without words (been there in my youth)

sometimes a dislike has been taken for no reason (maybe previously and unknowingly to the victim).

sometimes some kind of jealousy.

Certain drugs can cause hyper aggression too.

KidKruger Wrote:

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> One thing I don't get here that doesn't seem

> right.

> The dog ran up to a bloke who was jogging, so the

> owners of the dog approached the bloke and beat

> him up ?

> Or did the dog owners roll-up after words were

> exchanged ? I'm trying to imagine the silent

> scenario escalating to a sudden assault.

> Assault is not OK at all, but rarely happens with

> no words exchanged.

[Rianoo]

@Penguin

No, just would like the full story. All I have heard is a second hand story from someone who was "minutes away". The person who got the thick lip can say what he wants and that has been reported here, alarmingly, second hand, by his other half, who was, again, not a witness. Maybe the two 5 foot 8" very aggressive, beer bellied, english t-shirt wearing thugs were minding their own business. Who is to say who caused the incident ? I'm not trolling - I just don't think we need to be afraid of going to the park.

[Penguin68]

Rianoo

You clearly want some 'evidence' to re-assure you that this attack was in some sense justified - i.e. that it is still safe for someone who doesn't 'ask for it' to go into the park.

Being attacked by someone is never justified - violence is never an acceptable response (self defence may be - but are you now suggesting that this jogger attacked two men with a dog, who just defended themselves, and then that he lied to his partner and to the police?)

Actually, bad news, if the thugs have taken over the park - you should be afraid.

[Rianoo]

No not at all - maybe he lost his temper - that isn't justification for violence. Also I never said violence is an acceptable response. The fact that you respond to me that the jogger was attacked, without any real proof, makes me devils advocate. Strange the dog didn't react.

[indiepanda]

For goodness sake Rianoo, the "second hand story" was from the girlfriend of the guy who was attacked. It's hardly like some random person who heard about it via hearsay.

OP - I hope your boyfriend is ok and that the police catch the people who attacked him soon.

[Rianoo]

I don't condone what happened. If the guy was beaten up then yes it is bad thing to happen. Although I felt there maybe something more to the story. We should be able to ask or question if there was to negate fear of park jogging. Or maybe not in this case, sorry to rock the boat.

[Charles Notice]

This does seem to be taking did they / did he start the battle, perhaps others who were in the park and saw this attack could confirm the incident on the forum.

After nearly 3000 views some one might have said I saw it taking place.

All will then be clear. If it was an unprovoked attack it needs to be nipped in the bud.

Has anything happened like this before?

[TeriG]

All,

to clarify my boyfriend who was jogging was on the tarmac-ed circuit that goes around dulwich park - where there were, lots of people, dog walkers cyclists etc and the dog was not on a leash but got tangled up in his legs (the dog didnt bite or jump up but almost tripped him over as it wound around his ankles and between his legs). Annoyed at having to stop,rather than trip over it, my boyfriend did say to the owners to "keep control of their dog" - and to add, having just jogged past that area myself there were literally crowds of people - adults and children too etc; but rather than just verbally responding the men responsible then decided to start punching and kicking my boyfriend.... He had a bloodied lip and cuts and bruises to his legs, torso and was punched in the head too.

I have had confirmation from other park users that the same guys were seen verbally abusing other park users later - so they seemed to be getting angry and agressive very easily. All those reports have been sent on to the park authorities to ensure they are aware of all the facts.

If anyone else saw similar incidents, do continue to get in contact via private messaging.

[KidKruger]

I probably started the questioning, by asking for confirmation whether there was any discourse between jogger / alleged attackers.

Reason being that silent attacks, with no build up, are unusual and by their vary nature (no clear motive) are difficult to avoid.

My guess would have been there were words exchanged before the assault, perhaps along the lines of "hey watch out, your dog almost tripped me up".

No-one here can say either way - you weren't there.

The OP can't have been expected to remember every atom of the story she/he was told by their partner gi en how traumatised they must have been, so it's natural that readers will make observations and ask questions, as a result.

Cut Rianoo some slack - easy to pick on reasonable questions meant with no malice.

[Rianoo]

I will PM you if I see anything and I will keep my eyes peeled. Best regards to your man.

[DJKillaQueen]

Assault is a crime and these two guys are guilty of that (what ever verbal provocation may or may not have taken place). They need to be arrested and charged with that.

However on the issue of dogs. A public park is a space for a whole variety of users and anyone using it knows that. I think it is unreasonable for a jogger to expect dogs to be kept on leads just so that they can run uninterupted. Children have a habit of running around without looking too. I've lost count of the number of times a playful dog has chased my football during a kickabout in the park. But never have I felt I have the right to demand an owner keep their dog on a lead. We have to be sensible on that point. Where there are lots of people and animals sharing a space, accidents can happen.

[Carbonara]

TeriG, really sorry for your partner's horrible experience.

I was on the cafe area of Brockwell Park - where there were clear signs about dogs needing to be on leads - and a dog (not on a lead) charged and jumped at a toddler, making it fall over and hurt itself. The 2 men with the dog said nothing at all. I said 'I would want an apology if that had happened to my child' and was met with horrible abuse and threats of violence.

And while jogging in DP I was bitten (drew blood, caused huge bruise) by a large dog (Alsatian cross?) that was I think young and over-excited. I kicked at it to get it away from me and was met with a barrage of abuse and, again, threats of violence from the owner.

Some dog owners seem to be incredibly aggressive if anyone 'disses' their dog.

[tallulah71]

Well said DJKQ - by far the most thoughtful and measured post thus far.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

No problem with dogs running around in designated areas but I do have a problem with dogs off the leash around the Cafe, Tarmac ( why take your dog to the park if you are going to walk it on the Tarmac?!) the kids area and on the bridge.

My toddler had a dog run at him , jump up at him and made him fall over and hurt himself . The owner was busy gossiping to her friend and the dog was off the leash around the circuit Tarmac area. It was a little dog but scary to my child and enough to make him scared of dogs now.

Terri, well done on holding your own , I have been on this forum for years and it still has its shares of utter idiots who like to do nothing but cause issues, don't justify yourself to them

As they aren't happy with whatever answer you give . What happened was wrong , and that is that .

Dogs and people can be scary , hell, objects can be scary !

Hope you both recover from the shock soon and those horrid excuse of a human being are caught ASAP .

[DJKillaQueen]

A new puppy will jump up at a child the first time it meets it's new family. Would that make your child scared of dogs too? I don't mean to belittle your comment but children are scared by all sorts of things and parenting them is about teaching them not to be afraid. The best way to combat any fear of dogs (or any fear of anything for that matter) is to be around them.....not banish them altogether from this area or that. It's a park. People take their dogs to the park to let them have a run (exercise is necessary for a dogs good health). And there are laws in place to deal with dogs that are dangerous and not properly socialised....which incidently is a very small percentage of all dogs.

Instead of focussing on the really shocking aspect of this story (that two men embarked on an unprovoked violent attack) we are back to the never ending whining by parents fearing for the lives of their precious little tots if a dog comes anywhere near them.

Have we really lost that much sight of what is important in this world?

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Do you have any children DJKQ? It doesn't seems it , but obviously you are a dog lover .

If you read my comment you would read that I said I don't have a problem with dogs off the leash in designated areas but I do in areas like the cafe, tarmac and around kids areas , there is a reason for that , hygiene for one around the cafe , chasing the ducks on the bridge and the kids and runners around the circuit areas . You want dogs to be free to run about and leap up at anything that crosses it path but kids are supposed to just deal with it and learn . It's not a family dog, its not a friend's dog, its a dog whose behaviour we know nothing about and I am supposed to teach my precious child about a dog whose temperament I don't know ? That is just silly .

He was never afraid of dogs before but he doesn't expect to be minding his own business playing in the park and having a dog jump at him and hurt because its owner thinks she is special and doesn't have to be considerate and take notice of the signs saying Dogs must be on a leash .

There is a reason why there are leash on areas you know !

I am just glad my family all had the common sense to realise this with our dogs.

It just bugs me when people keep defending dogs when clearly it's the owners but there is a pattern with some dog owners lacking common sense .

I know about parenting as I have a child and I work in childcare so you are belittling me because no on said ban dogs from the park . They have the run of all the back of the park where they should be , exploring the bushes , trees and running on grass , what is the point in walking to the park and letting them off around the Tarmac area where all the kids , bikes and runners are ? It's just plain stupid .

My precious child doesn't go in the dog areas and push the dogs over because as his parent I use my common sense .

And the poor man wouldn't have been attacked if the dog was on a leash like it was supposed to be .

Anyway sorry for hijacking the thread Terri, I shall say no more .

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Apologies for the errors ( mobile Internet and partaking in forum discussions doesn't really go).

[DJKillaQueen]

There are plenty of young children in my family DBB. You don't have to be a parent to have an informed view on children. I don't own a dog either.

I totally understand the point regarding owners not leashing dogs in areas where the rules are that they must do so and that is the job of the park wardens to enforce, but I do also think there is a element of hysteria about dogs in parks in general locally. Dogs are social animals. They will go up to strangers and want to play. But it seems that is increasingly considered a dangerous affront, when it is nothing of the sort.

I had a small child on a scooter drive straight into me yesterday because she wasn't looking where she was going. Do I say that people should keep their children under control? After all, had I been elderly I could have fallen over and broken something! Do I ask that children be banned form riding scooters in designated areas of parks? Of course not. It was an accident. These things happen.

Personally I just prefer to be outraged and irritated by things that really do merit irritation and outrage. And dogs off leads in parks just isn't one of them.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Your comments are just silly . Seriously .

[DJKillaQueen]

A difference of opinion, that's all. But your response illustrates my point perfectly.

[edhistory]

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/download/6454/dog_ban_and_dogs_on_leads_byelaws

Has there ever been a conviction?

John K

[taper]

I was bitten by a dog once out running. But only dog incident I've faced in six years running. Plenty of aggressive incidents from people though. Sympathies to your partner.

On a point if detail, I think dogs are allowed off the lead on the Tarmac and dirt track area. It's where most people walk their dogs in DP. The middle of the park (cafe and behind) is where you are meant to leash them.

[first mate]

I agree, around cafe and tarmaced areas dogs should be kept on leads, bicyclists should cycle very slowly (I see so many power cycling at great speed) and children on scooters should do the same- these are all reasonbale ways to behave and show other park users that we are considering their needs as well as our own.

It is the case that the dedicated dog walk areas in the parks are also used by joggers. Dogs are allowed to be offlead on the dog walks and on the field areas. In this sense, it is likely that the paths of joggers and dogs will sometimes meet.

My advice to dog owners is, try to ensure that your dog is sufficently well trained before being let off lead to return to you immediartely when called and not to jump up at people (there are plenty of training classes around). I would ask joggers not to 'foot nudge' dogs out of the way as this is likley to excite the dog and antagonise its owner. I'd advise calling to the owner and asking them to get their dog. The odd young dog may get over-excited and want to play and yes this is annoying because it interrupts your jog but that is the nature of a shared space- we all have to live and let live a little.

Having read Teri G's last post it is clear that the b/f was attacked on a tarmaced area where, in my view, dogs should be on a lead. However, it is also clear that the dog was not aggressive, it irritatingly got tangled up in the joggers legs in a way that would have interrupted the jog. Ordinarily words would have been exchanged and that would have been it, in this case the owners of the dog reacted dispropotionately and committed a crime of violence. The dog is a side issue. These men might have reacted in similar vein to someone who 'looked at them the wrong way' or whose 'eyes were the wrong colour'.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Ditto! Someone with common sense !

I agree re the bikes going fast also. It's the same with bikes on the bridge , its inconsiderate.

I would hope that joggers who run around the back part of the park are aware that they share the space with the dogs and will be respectful in that dogs will be curious about them.

I jog on the tarmac in the hope I don't encounter any surprises with excited dogs and poo. Yes I get the odd speed cyclists weaving in and out and they usually get told by me to be careful.

The dogs currently do have free run in the park which DJKQ seems to be missing the point of.

Taper , there are leash on signs around some parts of the Tarmac/track area .

Not seen any around the back of the park .

first mate Wrote:

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> I agree, around cafe and tarmaced areas dogs

> should be kept on leads, bicyclists should cycle

> very slowly (I see so many power cycling at great

> speed) and children on scooters should do the

> same- these are all reasonbale ways to behave and

> show other park users that we are considering

> their needs as well as our own.

>

> It is the case that the dedicated dog walk areas

> in the parks are also used by joggers. Dogs are

> allowed to be offlead on the dog walks and on the

> field areas. In this sense, it is likely that the

> paths of joggers and dogs will sometimes meet.

>

> My advice to dog owners is, try to ensure that

> your dog is sufficently well trained before being

> let off lead to return to you immediartely when

> called and not to jump up at people (there are

> plenty of training classes around). I would ask

> joggers not to 'foot nudge' dogs out of the way as

> this is likley to excite the dog and antagonise

> its owner. I'd advise calling to the owner and

> asking them to get their dog. The odd young dog

> may get over-excited and want to play and yes this

> is annoying because it interrupts your jog but

> that is the nature of a shared space- we all have

> to live and let live a little.

>

> Having read Teri G's last post it is clear that

> the b/f was attacked on a tarmaced area where, in

> my view, dogs should be on a lead. However, it is

> also clear that the dog was not aggressive, it

> irritatingly got tangled up in the joggers legs in

> a way that would have interrupted the jog.

> Ordinarily words would have been exchanged and

> that would have been it, in this case the owners

> of the dog reacted dispropotionately and committed

> a crime of violence. The dog is a side issue.

> These men might have reacted in similar vein to

> someone who 'looked at them the wrong way' or

> whose 'eyes were the wrong colour'.