Rye Lane buses again: Consultation open on one way option

[IainJ]

Southwark Council has opened a consultation on the future of buses in Rye Lane, including an option for one way working. Under this, bus users in East Dulwich, Honor Oak, Nunhead and north Peckham would have to walk 600m from Peckham Rye Station to the nearest bus stop to get safely home. The existing two way option is also included and you can support one or the other.

(https://consultations.southwark.gov.uk/environment-leisure/rye-lane-traffic/) : open until 16 September 2022.

Bus services were returned to Rye Lane after an absence of 18 months last October, with 8 routes including 12, 63, 363, 197, 78, 343, P12 and P13.

Peckham Rye Station is one of the busiest outside central London with 7m users annually in 2019. The one way proposal would mean it's the only major station in London without a two way bus service. Most journeys are there and back - you go to work, shop or to a leisure activity then come home. After dark when the shops close Rye Lane become a graffiti strewn canyon and feels unsafe.

Apart from Southwark's web site, there are two public events, a street stall last week in Rye Lane and a presentation in the Rye Lane Baptist Chapel on 5 September. There is nothing in the consultation about reaching bus users outside Rye Lane, it looks geared to Rye Lane residents alone. Council officers have said they will mount a stall in the station at peak times to catch commuters, but this is the holiday season so blink and you'll miss it.

EDF users will remember Southwark's consultation on the LTNs where despite the opposition the Council did what it wanted. The one way idea is based on the so-called 'Movement Plan' but says nothing about Rye Lane. There's a list of documents that no one is going to plough through. Council officers say nothing has been decided and the consultation is completely open, but we have heard that before. When the Council makes a proposal like this they must consider it a serious option.

There is no evidence in the consultation to support the one way option, apart from the idea that the street is too narrow for two way buses, bikes and pedestrians. Strange it seems to work well at the moment, and once the station square opens and later when the access from the streets behind becomes available the crowding around the station will be a thing of the past. This £40m scheme will include lifts to all platforms - so people with disabilities, the elderly, those with heavy luggage, shopping or small children will be able to reach the trains but won't be able to get home if there are no buses outside the station. How's that for equality of opportunity?

So if you use the buses to get to the station, restaurants, shopping or cinema I urge you to complete the consultation so your voice is heard.

Edited August 2, 2022 by IainJ

[Nigello]

I’ve filled it in and said that 2-way bus traffic is my preferred choice. Without the buses it’s pretty empty up near the southern end and with all the litter and vandalised shopfronts it’s grim and the buses help alleviate that a bit.

[Sally Eva]

https://www.railengineer.co.uk/crowds-capacity-and-clapham-junction/

Re PR Station has 7 million passengers per year

Clapham junction has 430,000 passengers a day.

I'm in favour of two-way buses with wider pavements to slow the buses down.

[Drxyster]

Petiotion signed. TWO WAY TRAFFIC, REMOVE RUBBISH AND GRAFITTI, IMPROVE LIGHTING AND CCTV

[Siduhe]

Ditto. Rye Lane is part of my regular cycle route and I'm much happier now its two way, buses only and not a general free for all - appreciate that sounds a bit counter-intuitive but the scooters ride much more carefully when there are buses going both ways, and there are fewer pedestrians stepping out randomly without looking.

[Bic Basher]

If it's anything like the previous "consultation" Southwark has done, it'll be railroaded through regardless of the practicalities for all users of Rye Lane.

[IainJ]

https://www.railengineer.co.uk/crowds-capacity-and-clapham-junction/

Re PR Station has 7 million passengers per year

Clapham junction has 430,000 passengers a day.

I'm in favour of two-way buses with wider pavements to slow the buses down.

 

Correction made.

[CPR Dave]

Thank I've filled this out though no doubt I will be ignored as I don't live in one of the listed roads.

I think the whole area is much improved and much safer with two way traffic (would keep the public transport restrictions though).

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

To be fair, I can see how widening pavements all along would make it a much more pleasant space. However, I think two way bus traffic with other improvements make much more sense. I've responded to the consultation

[CPR Dave]

Wider pavements = more space for rotting rubbish and all the other detritus that was left there during lockdown.

[Nigello]

The rotting fruit, veg and even animal matter predated the Covid lockdown periods. It’s a midden but the council won’t intervene to demand landlords keep up appearances and so leave the people who use Rye Lane (many who are working class and not well-off) with no choice but to lump it.

[McMurphy]

Nice one ianj for posting this.

Everyone please fill it in if you want to avoid East Dulwich becoming even more of a transport black spot!

I understand that lower usage and fare revenue may sadly mean some bus services will be pared back, but this proposal is voluntary, unnecessary, and would be self inflicted

Not having buses running from what is by far the areas most useful station is ridiculous.

[Spartacus]

Responded

Would love to know how they spin it and why they always ask equalities questions

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Why do you think they ask equality questions?

[Spartacus]

Sexual orientation and religion are part of the equalities question

Not really needed unless they want to know how many transvestite Plymouth brethren object to buses going one way only

That's why I question the equalities requirements.

[kamb69]

For heavens sake. Why oh why do we have to barter for the right to have a bus that stops at Peckham Rye train station.please stop to consider the older members of our community and also those with walking difficulties or wheels chair bound.

This is a major inconvenience during rush hour and is an added safety issue when traveling alone as a woman through Rye Lane late at night.

Stop making people’s lives more difficult !!!!!!!!!

[jazzer]

Agreed, its farcical that passengers have to almost beg to keep the buses running through Rye Lane.

Remind me again what TfL state, oh that's it, "every journey matters"

Additional and just for the record;

P12 still on diversion, and as it has been for at least two if not the last three weeks as Ivydale Road remains closed due to another Thames Water repair, yawn, yawn, yawn.

P13 on diversion Again as Underhill Road is closed, no reason why though.

P4 on diversion as Honor Oak Road is apparently closed towards Lewisham due to "safety reasons" via Brockley Rise. What safety reasons?

Traffic diverting through Horniman Heights which are being used as a short cut by many.....

And every journey matters, REALLY!

Why not make the lives of those who use buses even harder than they have to be........

[Bic Basher]

I saw a P13 turning into Underhill Road this afternoon at the LL end. They were still on diversion at lunchtime.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Jazzer - you want TfL to drive the bus over the leaky water main then? You think TfL wants to cut bus services because it has less money than before?

[first mate]

Does anyone know how much this particular consultation process is costing?

[rollflick]

40% of passengers at Peckham Rye are interchanging, a lot of those that aren't access the station on foot and many of the pavements are of totally inadequate width. People spill off them onto an empty street then buses suddenly whizz along.

So long as there's a new stop at the top of Copeland Road, one-way for buses would be much better. Otherwise there'd only be space for minimal pavement widening. One-way should be southbound as much of the demand comes from ED, so that would be best for winter evenings.

Rather than spend lots on a new permanent layout or "trial" two-way buses, something we've known for a decade doesn't work well (see background to the Sustrans scheme, link below), Southwark should be trialling one-way access.

https://pocketplacespeckham.wordpress.com/2015/06/16/bye-for-now-from-sustrans/

With the next stage of the station square redevelopment supposed to start soon, requiring demolition of the buildings next to Rye Lane, one-way working will be needed for a year past the site anyway. So let's make the most of it and trial a new bus stop on Copeland Road, rather than having no bus stops near at all for another lengthy closure.

https://www.southwark.gov.uk/regeneration/peckham-and-nunhead/peckham-rye-station-square

[IainJ]

The ideas for improving the wider spaces such as the roads turning off Rye Lane and the area in front of the cinema are of course welcome. Seats, greenery, lighting and above all maintenance and removal of graffiti so that people feel not only comfortable but safe.

But the suggestion that buses 'whizzing along' is somehow a bad thing is astonishing. People use buses because they want to make a journey and the quicker the better. It is a sad fact that pedestrians need to look out for moving traffic, and when Rye Lane was cycle only they would walk out in front of you without looking. They don't tend to do that with buses present. The present two way arrangements seem to work reasonably well and there are plenty of cyclists who are comfortable with sharing the space with buses. The success is evidenced by the numbers of people using the buses to get to and from the station, bars, restaurants and cinema. The rubbish and clutter of street furniture are a bigger problem impeding the pavements.

It would be completely unacceptable to have a further delay and a reversion to long walks to the station while the square is being rebuilt. The Council should make every effort to ensure that there is easy access to the station from the 8 bus routes serving it. It may need some ingenuity but so often we who live outside Peckham and depend on the buses feel the Council is ready to close Rye Lane at the drop of hat for the slightest of reasons and not make any effort to provide for bus users, just to make the point. This consultation is clearly directed at Peckham and very few people outside the area will be even aware of it, but will be severely impacted if one way working goes ahead. Hence this post.

The idea of reverting to the Copland Road working as a serious long term proposal is a nonsense. If the Council or TfL had wanted to put a bus stop there during the long covid closure they would have done so. There were constant delays and discomfort to passengers with buses having to negotiate the speed humps and traffic queues outside the car wash premises, and there is only room for one bus to turn left through the railway bridge, impeding the oncoming traffic. The residents of these houses had to suffer the noise and vibration of the buses without any access to them. One house on the corner experienced structural problems which may have been linked.

And while one way working southbound only may help bus users living in East Dulwich, Nunhead and Honor Oak coming home at night it doesn't help those who live north of the station, who would under that plan still have to walk just as far to the Library to catch a bus up Peckham Park Road - Peckham Rye is still their nearest station. East Dulwich etc users would still have a long walk from Copland Road to the station, not in line of sight and therefore hardly a meaningful bus/train connection for a major station.

The one way proposal is untenable for users with disabilities, those with heavy shopping, luggage or small children. There have been a number of articles in the press recently documenting how difficult it remains for disabled users to access public transport.

Southwark would be in the dock on this one, guilty as charged.

[IainJ]

I have now had it confirmed by Network Rail that Rye Lane does NOT have to be closed for the rebuilding of Peckham Rye Station. They are aware of public sensitivity on this issue given the long interruptions there have been in recent years, e.g., the gas works and the covid lockdown, and want to avoid further closures.

Southwark is setting strict planning requirements for access to the rebuilt station (and rightly so). So it is all the more surprising they are consulting on the one way option which would have a severely detrimental impact on people with disabilities once they leave the station, making them walk 600m for a bus safely home.

I have asked Southwark whether the rebuilding of the station square (their part of the project) will require temporary closure of Rye Lane and await their reply, which I will post.

Southwark has not yet put up any posters in Peckham Rye station nor on any of the bus routes serving Rye Lane south of Nigel Road to alert local residents.

If you want to see the two way option retained, please respond to the consultation by 16 September.

[ed26]

I've just completed this, and the theme of the questions seems to suggest that the needs of cyclists who are passing through Rye Lane on the way to the City will be prioritised above passengers who are travelling to Rye Lane. If there really isn't enough room for both cycles and buses, then why shouldn't cyclists be diverted around Copeland Road?

Don't get me wrong - I don't think that cyclists should be rerouted off Rye Lane, but it seems a bit crazy to prioritise people who are passing the station over people who are travelling TO the station.

Part of me wonders if this is all part of the plan to do away with the 12/78 routes - you aren't going to get the 78 from Nunhead to go back on yourself to Copeland Road, just to get to the station, and it would be easier to get the 40/176/185 to Denmark Hill rather than walk from Copeland Road to Peckham Rye station. so then TfL can claim that there's a big reduction in bus usage.

[IainJ]

I agree, ed26, and judging by responses on here cyclists are happy to share Rye Lane with buses and pedestrians, and for some Copeland Road would work. The alternative route through Bellenden Road is used by many cyclists and also links through to the Surrey Canal route northwards on quiet roads.

But you are right, the main priority is to provide for people travelling to and from the station as well as other amenities in Rye Lane.

Network Rail has now given a very clear response to the Southwark proposal as follows:

'Given the significance of bus train interchange at Rye Lane, we believe that two-way bus movement should be maintained on Rye Lane to minimise the interchange time between bus and rail for users, particularly those with reduced mobility, to maximise the attractiveness of these low carbon public transport options'. (their underlining)

This is a very positive statement from the body bringing the major £40m funding to the station project. We hope for similar support from TfL and Govia Thameslink.

Southwark News has also picked up the story in this week's edition:

https://southwarknews.co.uk/featured/one-way-rye-lane-plans-spark-fears-for-the-disabled/

SO

VOTE FOR THE TWO WAY OPTION BY 16 SEPTEMBER