Lime bikes (and other hire companies) left in middle of pavement

[malumbu]

Do any of you concerned about bikes being on the pavement actually move them ? Serious question. I'll post something less provocative later.

[legalalien]

Yes I move them.

I think we can probably find a workable ebike solution, where hire companies are involved I’d like the council to negotiate sufficient revenue to help fund non hire parking infrastructure. And let’s give escooters a miss 😉

[malumbu]

I commented earlier that scooters were more inherently dangerous than bikes. I forgot to add the further hazard that many e scooter riders have one hand on the bars and the other on their phone, and a slighly lower percentage of those on Lime bikes.

So if you really want to channel your energies two issues you should ask your politicians about

(a) cycling/scootering whilst on a mobile phone

(b) cycling/ scootering on pavements

This is not necessarily about enforcement, but can be hearts and minds. Government is doing neither but I can draw a parallel to an earlier campaign discouraging mobile use by pedestrians being on their phone whilst crossing the road. There was a graphic with a young person texting and then getting run over.

And good on you for moving bikes on the pavement

[first mate]

If I can move them, I do but often it is many not a few.

I am with you on the e-scooters LL. Let's leave those for private ownership, as and when, and encourage more walking. If you can use an e- scooter you can almost certainly walk.

If the council is going to sub-let large swathes of public pavement to private e-bike companies then the quid pro quo has to be proper, safe management and hire of those bikes. I still think parking camera cars could monitor drop- off areas and issue on the spot fines for those seen leaving a bike lying on the pavement.

[exdulwicher]

I still think parking camera cars could monitor drop- off areas and issue on the spot fines for those seen leaving a bike lying on the pavement.

 

Doesn't need to be that complicated. Dockless scooters and bikes work off GPS, they have geofenced "go-slow" zones where the speed is automatically capped at about 8mph, the parking zones are all programmed in and (in theory), if you leave one randomly lying around, the app is supposed to dock you credit for not leaving it in a designated parking spot. (I don't know whether it does or not, I'm not signed up to them although I've read the T&C's which say they will charge you more per ride if you leave them outside designated zones).

Part of the trial stuff is finding out when and how people use them and moving the parking zones accordingly. If you find a host of scooters regularly being left outside the pub, then it'd be logical to put a parking zone there, which means one can be painted in properly out of the way of pedestrians. If you "install" a parking zone and its never used, it's an indication that it's in the wrong place!

[first mate]

Ah, that is really useful to know.

To add, if money is docked through the app I guess that should make its way to the council for public use. Agree probably too difficult but in principle?

[exdulwicher]

Ah, that is really useful to know.

To add, if money is docked through the app I guess that should make its way to the council for public use. Agree probably too difficult but in principle?

 

That would depend on the T&C's / operating agreement that the council has with the e-scooter company and TfL has some oversight in it as well.

More info here:

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/electric-scooter-rental-trial#on-this-page-2

[Rockets]

Given the way e-scooters are just dumped all over the place I suspect that the operators aren't too keen to punish the riders.

I was in Rome recently and they have awful problems with e-scooters (the streets in the centre of Rome are just littered with them) and are actively trying to resolve many of the issues that we are seeing here - hopefully TFL and councils don't repeat many of the mistakes others have made.

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/rome-scooter-problems/index.html

[first mate]

Yes, they really do need to get ahead of the game and have a workable plan. There is enough evidence of what is going on in other countries to make this a necessity.

[OutOfFocus]

(a) cycling/scootering whilst on a mobile phone

 

• Especially head buried in a phone to navigate etc
   
  
• Using scooter with 2 passengers
  

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

I still think parking camera cars could monitor drop- off areas and issue on the spot fines for those seen leaving a bike lying on the pavement.

 

Dockless scooters and bikes work off GPS, they have geofenced "go-slow" zones where the speed is automatically capped at about 8mph, the parking zones are all programmed in and (in theory), if you leave one randomly lying around, the app is supposed to dock you credit for not leaving it in a designated parking spot.

 

Again, you are treating bikes and scooters as the same. They are not. There is no licensing regime or special trial for bike usage. There is no requirement in Southwark to leave bikes of any description in any particular place.

[first mate]

Yes, but Southwark has expressed a commitment to Active Travel and to supporting rights of disabled and less mobile. Bikes/scooters cluttering up the pavements hinder both. Therefore, even if there is currently nothing to say where hire bikes should be left, perhaps there needs to be?

I say hire bikes because, to date, I have not seen privately owned bikes left in a similar manner.

[Rockets]

And therein lies the issue - people don't leave their private bikes in the middle of pavements for a days at a time until they use them next but people using hires bikes can and do - because that is the business model - you leave it where you want because the plan is that someone else will use it and move it to the next place and so it repeats....

It means the business model is built on the ability to leave the bikes where you want/need.

[Bic Basher]

The e-scooters seem to be a fad. Today I saw plenty of them parked up at the e-scooter bays on Peckham Rye/East Dulwich Road and Barry Road.

However the e-bikes are being used on a daily basis which seem to be what the public demand.

[first mate]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davekeating/2019/10/29/cities-are-cracking-down-on-shared-e-scooters/

Seems the evidence against e-scooters has been out there for some time. Why wait for the same issues to emerge here?

[malumbu]

I left a bike near Whitleys in Bayswater many years ago and went to the cinema. I came out two hours later to find I had not properly locked it to street furniture. It had fallen onto the pavement and people were politely walking round it. Obviously pleased it was not stolen but was I an early adopter of parking your bike on the pavement?

[first mate]

Perhaps we only need hire e-bikes and dump the e-scooters before the local area becomes a dumping ground for them.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

if there is currently nothing to say where hire bikes should be left, perhaps there needs to be?

 

Maybe yes, maybe no, but misunderstanding where we are now won't help us get to where we want to go in the future.

[first mate]

Not sure where you think the misunderstanding is.

Bikes and scooters are being left lying around in a way that hinders Active Travel and those less mobile/disabled.

Thus far there seems no plan to deal with that.

There seems to be a body of evidence in other countries that the bike/e-scooter-plonk-it-anywhere-when-you-are-done syndrome, gets worse not better without some form of intervention and regulation.

[OutOfFocus]

I would hope that there is a general legal principle of keeping pavements clear.

To paraphrase Private Eye's " Scenes you seldom see " - this lime bike is really well parked

[jazzer]

My concern is for those who are either disabled, in powered wheelchairs, are partially sighted or blind, especially for those who live in supported accommodation in Underhill Road and Lordship Lane and have to navigate these disguarded bikes and scooters as they go about living their lives. Am actually surprised no one has tripped or fallen over any of these hazardous bikes yet.

[jazzer]

And on a note of jollity, can you get stopped for riding one of these bikes after an evening drinking down the pub?

[Bic Basher]

I'd like to think most of the e-bikes at least are now being parked sensibly. The summer was horrendous for them being dumped in the middle of pavements or left lying down across them, but not seen that so much now we're in the colder months.

[exdulwicher]

And on a note of jollity, can you get stopped for riding one of these bikes after an evening drinking down the pub?

 

Bikes, no.

There's no law of cycling while under the influence although the police can stop you riding for your own safety, they can't actually arrest you for it.

Scooters, yes!

They're under different legislation and because it's a trial scheme and you need to sign up on the app using a driving licence, the same drink drive (drink ride?) laws apply. I know of at least one case, I'm sure there are probably others...

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/man-caught-drink-driving-e-5557035

[Spartacus]

And on a note of jollity, can you get stopped for riding one of these bikes after an evening drinking down the pub?

 

Bikes, no.

There's no law of cycling while under the influence although the police can stop you riding for your own safety, they can't actually arrest you for it.

Scooters, yes!

They're under different legislation and because it's a trial scheme and you need to sign up on the app using a driving licence, the same drink drive (drink ride?) laws apply. I know of at least one case, I'm sure there are probably others...

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/man-caught-drink-driving-e-5557035

 

Ex , there is the potential for fines if cycling under the influence

The maximum penalty for cycling whilst under the influence of drink or drugs is a £1,000 fine. This is also the case for careless or inconsiderate cycling. The maximum penalty for dangerous cycling is a £2,500 fine.

See https://www.slatergordon.co.uk/newsroom/is-it-illegal-to-ride-a-bicycle-when-drunk/#:~:text=Cycling%20under%20the%20influence%20of,cycling%20accident%20than%20sober%20cyclists.