I thought it was supposed to get easier as they get older?!?

[snowboarder]

Moan alert. It's just taken me over an hour to get a 4 and a 2 year old to bed. 4 yr old has always been fairly lively but actually not so bad at bedtime (apart from still being completely HOPELESS at sorting himself out/getting dressed etc) but OH MY the 2 yr old has started tantruming like the best of tv advert 2 year olds. NO! no bath! NO! Dont want to get out of the bath! NO pyjamas! NO nappy! MORE stories! Wanna play! WAIL!!!

Gah.

edited for typos

[Sol]

My 2 year old just scream to the top of his lungs.

[oimissus]

Miss Oi is still yapping away at the top of her voice.

[Grotty]

Maybe its something in the air. My 17 month old tantrummed today 4 times having never done it before and both 17 month old and 3 year old messed about much more than usual at bedtime.....

[tomskip]

My children haven't even started getting ready for bed yet ...

[crystal7]

Urgh tantrums are a new trick for my 17 month old, short lived but I'm sure he'll develop stamina. 4 year old hasn't yet grown out of them?? She even says 'that's not fair!'...

[snowboarder]

Although consistently naughty/cheeky eldest didn't really have tantrums I don't think (but was in new baby fog whe he was the same age as youngest is now, so maybe he did?!). It's very tedious to have a small furious cross thing screaming about everything...

[WorkingMummy]

I have the same dynamic: a 4 and 2 yo. I hear you! My 2 yo is generally more laid back than her older sister but she has recently developed a type of tantrum which is as awesome as any I've seen!

BirneHelene wrote the following in a post begun by Tiddles last November about mother in the co-op who was amazingly patient with her screaming toddler.

She wrote:

"Talking of coping strategies for parents reminds me of this lovely book which focusses on helping parents develop strategies to cope when things get tough.

The Joy of Parenting: An Acceptance and Commitment Therapy Guide to Effective Parenting in the Early Years (by Coyne and Murrell)"

I bought the book and found it very useful. The stuff on planned ignoring is particularly good.

[oimissus]

Miss Oi is still awake. Starting to get me down. Took till 10 on Sunday for her to go to sleep (to be fair she was 3 hours in the car and slept for one of those), last night not too bad, obviously tonight not great. What have other parents of 3-year-olds done? She just doesn't seem to be tired, but she's been up since 7, at nursery all day with a short 20 minute nap. Mr Oi thinks her room is too light as she's playing with her cuddly toys but she asks for the door to be a bit open so it's not too dark - I'm thinking in investing in a night light and shutting the door (I don't think she'd be able to open the door) - but she's never slept with the door shut, it almost feels like a punishment.

Aaaarrrggghh! She is in fact a fantastic sleeper once asleep, I'm beginning to think this is retribution for her sleeping through so early on when she was a baby!

[BellendenBear]

snowboarder Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Although consistently naughty/cheeky eldest didn't

> really have tantrums I don't think (but was in new

> baby fog whe he was the same age as youngest is

> now, so maybe he did?!). It's very tedious to

> have a small furious cross thing screaming about

> everything...

My sympathy SB. I have one very furious cross little thing at the moment. Where does the anger come from?! Not 2 until next week but certainly building up to it and developing her ability to throw herself on the floor.

[EDmummy]

I feel for you although mine are now 12 and 7. The big secret of parenthood ... It doesn't ever get easier just different! 2 year old tantrums IMO are nothing compared to hormonal 12 year olds! I hear from wiser, more experienced friends that there's a lovely period between 14-16 yrs!

[snowboarder]

EDmummy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

It doesn't ever get easier just different!

Hmm yes I do know this - temporarily forgotten in the heat of toddler rage! I think about a year ago my two were good at bedtime and I got it down to a 35min operation. Now more demanding...especially on a work day when I get home knackered at 6.30 - but at least they sleep generally!!

BB - I know - and congratulations btw - heard your news - life's about to get a whole lot more complicated for you, yes?!?

[Mutrik]

This thread made me smile! I have the delight of putting triplet 2.5 year olds to bed.

[EDmummy]

Mutrik Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This thread made me smile! I have the delight of

> putting triplet 2.5 year olds to bed.

Mutrik, I bow down to you! I know someone with triplets and for you I think it really only can get better!

[Mutrik]

X

[snowboarder]

Mutrik Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This thread made me smile! I have the delight of

> putting triplet 2.5 year olds to bed.

Oh GOD! I think I'd need gin before embarking on that!!

[snowboarder]

Jesus wept now he won't get dressed. I always thought older one was the troublesome one - but he actually is quite compliant and easily bribed with daily tasks - he's just feisty and runs off....little one turning out to have a very strong will and temper - but won't leave my side. Ah they are all different, hey?!?

[Fuschia]

Sb, put his clothes handy for the front door. When you want to leave the house allow an extra 15m - when you star getting your coats on he will suddenly want to get dressed and you can do it on the door mat

If he still doesn't cooperate, stick his stuff in your bag and let him pick his way down your path in his bare feet

[Ole]

I dread the getting ready in the morning and evening ready for bed. For us our 3.5 doesn't tantrum or make a fuss, he just won't do it or get easily distracted. We have to ask him at least 20 times to get on with it. Every single time. When he is brushing his teeth he will start playing with toothbrush and water, when I need to put his creams on (bad eczema) he will wriggle and run away from me and won't stay still for even a few seconds, when I ask him to get dressed he might put a sock on and then go off to play then put the other sock on and then go off to play and on and on it goes. I know he is still only little and one day it will click and he will get on with it by himself (fingers crossed), but jeez it is taking a long time!

[birnehelene]

WorkingMummy I am glad to hear you found the book useful. I think its a wonderful book! We all know that ignoring tantrums when it is appropriate is incredibly effective as any attention (be it positive or negative attention) is what keeps behaviours going, but actually doing the ignoring and being consistent is oh so hard! Those little ones sure know how to push our buttons and I agree tantrums don't necessarily get easier as they change all the time (think teenager...) but you learn to live and cope with them. And then sometimes its really hard and thats also ok! Nobody said that parenting is easy right?

[Ole]

I found that when my son started tantruming (at about 15 months old or so I think), instead of ignoring him I would just hold him and try to calm him down by telling him it is OK and to calm down whilst stroking his back. The first couple of times it took a while for him to calm down but other than those couple of times I can't really say that he has ever had a full on tantrum. He has his moments of course but never of the screaming throwing himself on the floor and making a scene type. I got this advice from the forum, it might have been Fuschia? I can't remember, but whoever it was, it was very effective, and it makes sense because most of the time the reason why toddlers tantrum is because of frustration, so if they learn early on that it is OK to feel frustrated and acknowledge their feeling instead of ignoring them when they are older they will be more likely to be able to cope with their feelings. This is pseudo-pychology and just one of the many theories which I am sure are out there.

[Fuschia]

Margot Sunderland, psychologist and author of 'the science of parenting' speaks of toddler distress tantrums vs 'little Nero' tantrums snd the stages of infant brain development that a child needs before they can overcome the feelings themselves

Googling 'little Nero tantrums' comes up with Lots of interesting reading

http://attachedparents.livejournal.com/648806.html for eg

[birnehelene]

Ole

As a psychologist I completely agree that it is important to acknowledge feelings of frustration and this is absolutely appropriate with tantrums. When my daughter has a tantrum I acknowledge her feeling and also give her a hug when this is appropriate (obviously not wanting to go to bed tantrum will not warrant extended hugging and saying sorry that I am leaving, but instead helping her to use her comfort object, putting music on etc - unless you follow a more attachment parenting approach which is fine). Once you have acknowledged the feeling it is then best to ignore or distract rather than give more attention. Of course there are times where tantrums require more explanations or cuddles, depending on the situation. However ignoring does not mean that the emotion is not ok to have and ignoring doesn't mean putting toddler out of sight or completely giving the cold shoulder. But instead you are trying to teach them strategies to learn to cope with their emotions (whether this is done verbally or by actual examples) by acknowledging and helping them to move on. Part of their comfort strategy when they have a tantrum might indeed be a cuddle with their parents.

[birnehelene]

Just to add I strongly believe that teaching children strategies to cope with emotions or with different situations they encounter or things they are expected to do is key. In my work I have often encountered parents who are at their wits end because their children are not going to sleep or are not following instructions etc, but actually the foundations had not been laid down. So the child might not have been taught any strategies to help the drop off to sleep or they did not have the capacity to see all the steps involved in the instructions. So in those cases its the going back to basics that helps those situations but children are still going to have tantrums - sometimes more and sometimes less.

[Sol]

All sound very nice. I wish I had the patience and time to apply it when my toddler has a tantrum; which is very often these days. I just get really frustrated and stressed specially if I am getting ready to go out, do the school, nursery run, go to work, and don't have time for rationing, cuddling, explaining, ignoring.