Warning: climate vandals are back

[Rockets]

JessEloise Wrote:

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> My brother's tyre was deflated last night, he

> found a lentil in the valve. This was done to an

> electric car!!!

I really do question the intelligence of some of these climate activists - they did it to an electric car....my goodness it just shows what we are dealing with?

[CPR Dave]

It's criminal, Peter. I'm glad your child was OK.

But this isn't helped by local councillors obstructing justice and then bragging about it on here and elsewhere.

People used to respect the law, and campaign to change it if it was wrong, not take justice into their own hands

If we accept vigilantes going round stopping deportations and vandalising cars the what's next for them?

[joom]

Irresponsible choices lead to irresponsible actions. Hopefully there is some collective serious thinking going on around those neighbourhoods. It?s a shame some can?t deal with these issues being brought to their door.

[Rockets]

So Joom by your own justification for these actions you would be happy if someone is caught in the act of doing this then an irresponsible action upon them would be acceptable - say they attacked them?

Or you would be ok if people started pushing people who cycle on pavements or jump red lights off their bikes?

Or those that vandalised the planters were ok to do it?

These are all actions that no-one should be supporting or condoning but somehow because this is dangerous vandalism in relation to climate change that it's ok...

When people you don't agree with start taking direct action I suspect your mood and attitude would change. The climate change debate is being derailed by the action of a few groups who are nothing more than anarchists who have just leeched onto the cause.

[AnotherPaul]

We?re in a climate emergency, taking action against people who choose to drive the most fuel consuming cars is perfectly justified.

One may not like the manner of the protest but I?d wager you?ll be far more annoyed if your grandchildren live on an uninhabitable planet.

Many thought trade union movement was annoying, the suffragettes too and the idea that there should be one person one vote. Those who promoted those ideas were vilified, but they were right.

Keep deflating tyres. Do everything we can to change out current collision course with disaster. And try not to complain too much in the face of environmental apocalypse. It?s a bad look.

[tedfudge]

People should leave other peoples property alone just because they dont agree with what they drive... do some people honestly think If the UK went environmentally friendly everything will be ok ?

It's the rest of the world that needs to do the same and most are not interested.

Also deflating someone's tyres is not right if that person has to drive their wife to hospital if shes gone in to labour or drive their children to hospital etc what would the consequences be ?

Not everybody agrees with what others do but does not mean others should disrupt.

[AlexandHelenC]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> first mate Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > It's presumptious. Okay, perhaps many should be

> > less reliant on cars but on the other hand some

> > are extremely reliant. I wonder how these

> > activists decide who should be on the receiving

> > end of their actions or is it just completely

> > random? For those who are disabled or who have

> > very ill relatives and might need to get to a

> > hospital in the early hours, this is beyond

> > inconsiderate and, as you say, potentially

> > dangerous.

>

> They target SUVs as I understand it. It's pretty

> difficult to argue that people need to drive

> massive SUVs in London.

Is it conceivable to you that people that live in London might use their car to drive outside London?

We have a medium sized SUV. It?s really practical for transporting our baby, dog and all of the luggage that they need when we visit family and friends around the country. It?s also a hybrid so we travel through town on battery power. When travelling in London I exclusively walk, cycle or use public transport.

It?s an obvious point, but I wonder how many of the activists truly practice what they preach. Vandalising family cars isn?t a good look if you still take flights anywhere, for example.

[Spartacus]

AnotherPaul Wrote:

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>

> One may not like the manner of the protest but I?d

> wager you?ll be far more annoyed if your

> grandchildren live on an uninhabitable planet.

>

I'm curious AP

If its uninhabitable then how are they living on it 🤔

The real answer is not to target the instruments but the causes, so maybe places like China with their former 1 child per couple policy is one that needs to be adopted worldwide to reduce the population to a more manageable size. Less people equates to less use of resources, less use of land for farming and more forests to absorb carbon

Simple solution but no one is brave enough politically to suggest it as it would require a world government to acheive and whilst it would very slow to achieve, the long term benefits to the planet and nature would be huge

Humans are the primary cause so maybe activists should find a way of influencing governments to reduce organically the world population.

But of course that has other problems as defined by wiki

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_consequences_of_population_decline

[Rockets]

AnotherPaul Wrote:

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> We?re in a climate emergency, taking action

> against people who choose to drive the most fuel

> consuming cars is perfectly justified.

>

> One may not like the manner of the protest but I?d

> wager you?ll be far more annoyed if your

> grandchildren live on an uninhabitable planet.

>

> Many thought trade union movement was annoying,

> the suffragettes too and the idea that there

> should be one person one vote. Those who promoted

> those ideas were vilified, but they were right.

>

> Keep deflating tyres. Do everything we can to

> change out current collision course with disaster.

> And try not to complain too much in the face of

> environmental apocalypse. It?s a bad look.

Is this about fuel consumption, I thought it was about emissions output? Do you know? Do the climate vandals even know - given they have done this to Q3 cars and an electric car it seems they are a little confused as to what the issue really is. But let's be honest this has been an over-riding trait of some of their actions - gluing themselves to electric trains, blocking cooking oil distributors etc etc.

It is exactly this type of attitude and confused approach to the objectives of their campaign that is setting these groups on the lunatic fringes of the climate debate but doing massive damage to the more sensible groups by turning a lot of people off the broader discussion and doing a lot more harm than good.

Maybe if these climate vandals stopped acting like hypocritical spoilt children and grew up a bit then we could actually try to solve the problems facing the planet.

[tedfudge]

When the protesters blocked bridges etc they were hypocrites because the was drinking from plastic bottles they had mobile phones and how did they all get there was it the trains and buses and cars that they are all protesting about ?

Leave other peoples property alone

What would be next if you dont have solar panels on your roof they are going to RIP the tiles from your roof ?

[joom]

Rockets Wrote:

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> So Joom by your own justification for these

> actions you would be happy if someone is caught in

> the act of doing this then an irresponsible action

> upon them would be acceptable - say they attacked

> them?

>

> Or you would be ok if people started pushing

> people who cycle on pavements or jump red lights

> off their bikes?

>

> Or those that vandalised the planters were ok to

> do it?

>

> These are all actions that no-one should be

> supporting or condoning but somehow because this

> is dangerous vandalism in relation to climate

> change that it's ok...

>

> When people you don't agree with start taking

> direct action I suspect your mood and attitude

> would change. The climate change debate is being

> derailed by the action of a few groups who are

> nothing more than anarchists who have just leeched

> onto the cause.

The climate change debate is mostly being derailed by those in charge, greenwashing and lying, at the same time as opening new coal mines. The actions of the few are the ones that get the most attention because it brings the situation into very sharp focus for the ordinary person.

You use very inflammatory language to describe these people - it seems you are unwilling to engage and find it easier to rant. Maybe you should channel your energies toward something more productive, finding a way to address these issues in a way that?s effective and ticks all the boxes you need ticking. Good luck with that.

[Rockets]

Inflammatory language accusation from someone defending inflammatory actions....go figure...

You didn't answer the question did you so are we to presume that any irresponsible action to fight an irresponsible action is ok in your world?

I am more than willing to engage but these groups don't deserve any engagement as it is very difficult to reason with idiots, especially idiots who seemingly don't know the difference between an electric SUV and a diesel one! But per your earlier message on fuel consumption it seems their supporters have difficulty in determining what their message is too! ;-)

[joom]

You?re confusing my comments with others. And just so you know, I stand 100% with the people doing this and all the other civil disobedience actions. And yes, I?ve been affected by some of them. Boohoo

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> I?m pretty sure it?s ok to reinflate a tyre that?s

> lost air

Of course it is. The suggestion otherwise is cobblers.

[Rockets]

But the suggestion that a fully deflated tyre with the weight of an SUV bearing down on it risks having its structural integrity compromised is most definitely not cobblers.

Nor is the fact that there is a risk to the valve being damaged by the weight of the car.

Never mind the risk of damage to the valve by the lentil, mungbean, kumquat or whatever they are wedging in it to deflate it as they make their cowardly escape.

But, you know, keeping telling yourself it?s all good, all very harmless and for the greater good by all means??.

Apparently it all started in Sweden in 2007 with the emergence of the Indians of the Concrete Jungle who started doing it. Some time after a vigilante group calling themselves the Cowboys of the Concrete Jungle was set-up roaming the streets trying to find members of Indians group??.probably just the natural cycle of irresponsible choices leading to irresponsible actions?.

[TheCat]

Its quite illuminating discovering what levels of civil disobedience some people will accept if its a cause/position they happen to agree with.

Sure, its 'ok' to have to reinflate one's tyres for the most part (other than the pretty tangible example given earlier by the poster that rushed his burned daughter to hospital)...but shall we all just ignore this real world example of what harm could be caused, because we all agree that we're in a 'climate emergency'...???

I wonder how the great and good of the forum would react if The Cat gathered a few Brexiteer mates and went round the neighborhood letting the air out of people's tyres...and leaving a little leaflet saying we were sick of all the 'hot air' coming from remainers moaning about brexit....perhaps a slightly different tone of reaction from some forummites?

[Waseley]

Cheers Rah Rah. Generally reflect my views.

Driven zillions of miles and never had a blow out. Certainly wasn't great at looking after my tyres in my younger days. Vulcanised rubber is pretty robust, and just doesn't fail like some are suggesting.

You can argue that it is the wrong tactic in campaigning against emissions, but please don't use spurious information on tyre failure to justify your argument.

[Cyclemonkey]

The "we need a SUV" to vist family/our second home in tne country special pleading is kind of funny. This is the UK not the Aussie outback. I grew up in a farm and we were a family of five, our family car was a Volkswagon Golf.

I am not particularly supportive of this action but just note we often use one of those irregular verbs when talking about individial responsibility and climate change- Their choices are environmentally bad and indefensible, Your choices are selfish and not needed, My choices are perfectly justifiable due to my particular needs.

[Spartacus]

This all strikes me of vigilantism.

Taking the law into their own hands because they think driving a car is a crime and some on here seem to publicly support it.

What next ?

Gangs roaming the streets taking revenge in people enjoying a bbq because tjey create pollutants?

People getting attacked for shopping in William Rose because cows cause methane so meat eaters are a problem ?

Once you start going down the vigilante route where will it stop and would you then condemn people if they defended themselves and their property when they are targeted?

Be warned its a slippery slope and supporting actions of the vigilantes is only encouraging more extreme tactics potentially by both sides.

[JohnL]

Spartacus Wrote:

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> This all strikes me of vigilantism.

>

> Taking the law into their own hands because they

> think driving a car is a crime and some on here

> seem to publicly support it.

If we had a unlimited supply of cheap energy which didn't have any effect on the environment.

I wish that test tube really had contained cold fusion :)

[Waseley]

Bit reactionary Spartacus.Britain had a proud history of direct action to change society.

Many would argue environmentalists vandalism is preferable to environmental vandalism.

Manufactured tin cans Vs destruction of the planet. The former is trivial.

[Spartacus]

Call it what you will weaseley, it's still vigilantism as they are taking the law into their own hands, and not marching on Downing Street.

Do you support vigilantism? if so are saying that you support someone taking a tyre iron to someone letting down their tyres... see how easily it could escalate🤔

[TheCat]

Waseley Wrote:

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> Bit reactionary Spartacus.Britain had a proud

> history of direct action to change society.

>

'direct action' targetting corporations, interest/political groups or governments is one thing....but targetting individuals?

As well as being the very definition of vigilantism (just as Spartacus is arguing), I would suggest it is likely to be massively counter-productive to their intent....I'd be very surprised if many car owners who have had their tyres let down, has reacted to finding out about it with poignant reflection about their own climate impact....and (with a thankful nod to wise climate activisit foresight) resolved to change their ways....

[Rockets]

When I look at the Tyre Extinguishers website it appears this is more an attack on wealth - they conclude that someone only owns an SUV out of vanity and use it as status symbol - which is clearly nonsense - I agree that many SUVs are unnecessary but I am sure there are a variety of reasons why people buy them and to try and pin this on just vanity is very blinkered and shows how their narrative is being prejudiced by a war on wealth.

Tyre Extinguishers conclude that if they don?t use their SUV the people whose cars they have damaged can walk, cycle or use public transport - amplifying the ludicrous narrative that every car journey can be replaced by the aforementioned other travel modes.

I agree that those who can afford SUVs are only ever likely to be inconvenienced and I doubt SUV ownership will decline. The fact they lump electric vehicles into their attacks and justify it by saying they still pollute, are status symbols and are dangerous really shows this has very little to do with climate change and more about class war.

I also feel very uncomfortable that Tyre Extinguishers mantra is to make owning an SUV impossible - I don?t think anyone should be dictating to people what they can or cannot do - the very same people who are coming on here supporting them probably wouldn?t want to be forcibly dictated to by other groups on how to live their lives.

And this brings me onto the rank hypocrisy shown by some. Many of those saying they support this vandalism were the same people who had a lot to say about the wording on posters in windows, protests in the square by old people causing a danger for their families on bikes, vandalism of the planters, the placing of an anti-LTN sign in Cllr Newens? garden etc etc?but now they say ?well this vandalism is ok because I support the cause?? Let?s call it middle-class activist hypocrisy?..;-)

It?s a very slippery slope when you start accepting, validating and justifying these actions and the phrase ?do unto others as you would have them do unto you? comes to mind.

[Waseley]

Back to my earlier post. However wrong you may think the action is, it is very low level. You won't see me condoning it, but the response from many seems over the top. I'm enjoying the Glastonbury documentary, which refers to some direct action such as Greenham Common. Do watch it on i-player if you haven't seen it. I'm certainly on the womens' side who did help change history. But at time the press, Tory party and good citizens of Newbury demonised them. It will be interesting to see how history judges XR etc.