Celebrate the passing of Ms Thatcher

[the-e-dealer]

How long has she has the Title Ms? . Didn't think she was an overall wearing feminist?

[numbers]

wtf is an 'overall wearing feminist' t-e-d?

oh stereotyping. I see.

[woodrot]

So how is everyone enjoying Brtish History revisionist week then ?

[the-e-dealer]

I was thinking of this

http://pinterest.com/pin/39547302950506265/

[Santerme]

woodrot Wrote:

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> So how is everyone enjoying Brtish History

> revisionist week then ?

Which version?

[rgutsell]

Hallo everyone

I am very pleased that my thread has produced such a fertile, creative, and entertaining response.

My own family want me to shut up and stop ranting!

As regards the comment that Socialism spends "other people's money"; isn't that what has just happened with the recent banking crisis and the recession? Haven't we just bailed out the banks? Weren't the capitalist oranisations using our money (from dubious mortgages, fixed energy bills, energy cartels, PFI etc). Isn't the whole tottering capitalist pyramid supported by our money, our earnings, our spending, our families, our desires and needs?

Glenda Jacksons speech was excellent and bravely undertaken in isolation. What a stark contrast her approach is to that

of Ms Thatcher et al. Jackson for PM anyone?

I think I will head for the Magdalene wed eve, and metaphoricaly tip some beer over Thatchers grave.

Yours

Rgutsell

[Marmora Man]

rgutsell Wrote:

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> Hallo everyone

I am very pleased that my thread has produced such a fertile, creative, and entertaining response.

My own family want me to shut up and stop ranting!

Glenda Jacksons speech was excellent and bravely undertaken in isolation. What a stark contrast herapproach is to that of Ms Thatcher et al. Jackson for PM anyone?

I think I will head for the Magdalene wed eve, and metaphoricaly tip some beer over Thatchers grave.

From MM:

I personally will raise a glass in tribute to one of the most effective post war Prime Ministers we have seen. My first 10 adult years were between 1970 and 1980. That grey, dismal and utterly uninspiring decade was reversed under the Conservative government that she led. Her government made mistakes, not least in attempting to downsize the Royal Navy at the height of the Cold War, a decision that arguably contributed to the Argentine invasion of the Faklands, but on the whole the government she led got it about 75% right - which is a pretty good outcome for politicians.

The personalisation of her period as PM, attributing every decision (good or bad) to her alone is ridiculous - while the continued demonisation of her by the left is, to me, barely understandable. Her government made decisions that, in hindsight, almost every other politician would have been forced to make given world economic forces. The suggestion that without Margaret Thatcher there would still be happy northern communities of miners and steel workers, gathering in their working men's clubs or around their racing pigeon lofts and indulging in clog dancing to colliery brass bands at weekends is pure fantasy. In 1979 deep mined (ie UK nationalised) coal was costing > ?130/ton to produce while it was fetching ?35/ton on world markets - an unsustainable commercial proposition. I remember my first car - a rust bucket (nationalised) British Leyland Maestro - I could afford to buy it as a student because it was worth, three years old, about 10% of its purchase price due to rust and mechanical problems. That was the reality that the incoming government was faced with.

Time is meant to lend perspective, the Thatcher is Dead celebratory parties by those who were, in general, far too young to have even lived under her governments let alone been affected by them are just weird. If those participating had an ounce of gumption they would be making real political points in today's political arena not dancing around the effigy of a politician who last wielded power in 1990.

As for Glenda Jackson - her speech was more a spiteful, shrewish and cowardly rant than a considered political demolition of a, once upon a time, opponent. Lord Howe's resignation speech in 1990 was both a far more effective attack and also far more brave as he didn't wait until Margaret Thatcher had died.

[Huguenot]

A great deal of the motivation for the celebration seems to glory in the breaking of a taboo.

It's clearly deeply unpleasant and offensive to revel in anyone's death - and doing something so nasty and small minded seems to give a lot of satisfaction to certain types of people.

It's to be expected of pathetic 14 year old boys who want to be part of a playground gang, constantly seeking out the approval of the other kids. It's reflection of their desperate lack of self confidence and sense of value.

It's a rather unbecoming trait in grown adults.

[woodrot]

At least the fragrant Mark Thatcher is taking care of her estate it would seem

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/margaret-thatcher-tax-snatcher-mystery-1828441

[rgutsell]

Hiya all

Brilliant snippet from the Independent.

Someone texted Arthur Scargill; " Margaret Thatcher, dead".

Scargill replied; "Arthur scargill, alive"

LOL

Rgutsell

[????]

Things that I have learnt this week

Magaret Thatcher was some kind of fascists dictatotor rather than a PM who won three stonking majorities in democratic elections

Huge swathes of the left have only hatred and protest, nothing constructive to offer - Blair was sort of right with this with his comments this week, and Milliband is sensible enough to see this too

Social media once again proving a shallow and easy place for non-thinkers. Emotional outbursts and pretty pathetic 'analysis' persistently posted, evan by people with brains, as deep and inciteful takes rather than the emotional guff it by and large was.

Respects to those that I may disagree with but were bright enough to see that fighting yesterdays battles, largely on false premises, is a pointless, slightly self indulgent and somewhat juvenile exccrcise when there's stuff happening RIGHT now.

You enjoy your celebration drink in the Mag, that's sticking it to the Man....or woman.

[Huguenot]

This is, kind of, an example:

Brilliant snippet from the Independent.

Someone texted Arthur Scargill; " Margaret Thatcher, dead".

Scargill replied; "Arthur scargill, alive"

LOL

Hardly 'brilliant' is it? Not really Laugh Out Loud. Mildly amusing, maybe? Not exactly guffaw inducing, unless you're one of those sweaty faced golf club idiots who prop up rural boozers cat-calling women on the way to the toilet.

So what makes people describe this as 'brilliant'? People who think this makes them look cool.

It's tragic.

[Otta]

Quids said

"Respects to those that I may disagree with but were bright enough to see that fighting yesterdays battles, largely on false premises, is a pointless, slightly self indulgent and somewhat juvenile exccrcise when there's stuff happening RIGHT now."

Totally agree with this!

[PeckhamRose]

Courtesy of Steve North on Facebook (and I agree with it):

Whatever you think of Thatcher she divided this country in so many ways. Why the fuck should she get what is essentially a state funeral when so many people in this country hated her and what she stood for? Do we not all have a voice or a say? She decimated communities in the North of England. She sold the Falkland Islanders down the river by ignoring their concerns and denying them British citizenship and then used the ensuing fallout of conflict to win the 1983 election. She called Mandela and the ANC terroists. She encouraged the police to lay into miners, shipworkers, all kinds of protestors, by giving them huge overtime payments and backing them to the hilt even when they were completely in the wrong. She called the miners who'd dug coal and powered this country "the enemy within". She allowed mass unemployment to be an acceptable result of severe economic policy. She encouraged a get rich culture based on banking and lending to become our major industry whilst completely running down our once great manufacturing base. So when we buy a stupid single, or protest against her funeral, we aren't disrespecting an old woman. If it was a low key, marked event in the nature of Harold Wilson's or Heaths, fair enough. But if they're going to give her the status of a mass state worship shoved in our faces then too many of us resent that her legacy isn't being shown up for what it was. The most divisive period in British politics in recent times. You want respect, you earn it.

[Otta]

I don't want anyone to respect her if they don't want to, and I certainly wont expect them to stand with heads bowed. Celebrating though? No class.

[Loz]

Number 6 on the iTunes chart... and rising. I reckon Maggie supporters, on account of having more money generally, might just get this to number 1 next week.

 

[Alan Medic]

I think celebrating a death is somewhat sick. However I also think that spending so much money on a funeral for a person who divides opinion so much is wrong. I heard it's costing ?10M. Isn't the country in dire straits and couldn't that money be used better elsewhere? As opposed to just spending taxpayers money maybe the government should have tried fundraising for the money and let those people who want to donate to the cost do so.

[reggie]

I wonder if the BBC will play the not sensibles track?

[*Bob*]

In the news this week, I saw..

- a group of people, still sitting in the social club of a town that died over a quarter of a century prior, heckling the reporter over the mention of a prime minister who left office 20 years ago.

I also saw..

- a man so desperate to find a better life that he was prepared to risk stowing himself away in the cargo hold of a jet and died from either exposure or falling out of the plane over London.

[woodrot]

Loz Wrote:

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> Number 6 on the iTunes chart... and rising. I

> reckon Maggie supporters, on account of having

> more money generally, might just get this to

> number 1 next week.

>

>

it was a toungue in cheek piss take of Thatcher bro. a weak one, but still a piss take.whoever is paying out their hard earned cash for this ( not benefit scrounger commies migrant layabouts blates) doesnt seem to get this.

[Loz]

"If this is a high entry in the Chart Show on Sunday, we would expect to play the song as there are no editorial reasons not to play it," the BBC said in a statement.

Not surprising, as celebrating a dead person, even a controversial one, isn't offensive like the sentiment behind the 'Ding Dong' song.

[Loz]

woodrot Wrote:

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> it was a toungue in cheek piss take of Thatcher bro. a weak one, but still a piss take.whoever is

> paying out their hard earned cash for this ( not benefit scrounger commies migrant layabouts

> blates) doesnt seem to get this.

Notsensibles guitarist Steven Hartley told the BBC News website the song - which features the chorus line "I'm in love with Margaret Thatcher, I'm in love with Margaret Thatcher, I'm in love with Maggie T" - had been conceived as a satirical swipe at the former Conservative leader.

"We were of Thatcher's Britain - just a bunch of ordinary north-west lads from a north-western town," he said.

Hartley said it would nevertheless be "great" if the song charted.

So yeah, people haven't quite got what they meant, but hey, they'll take the cash anyway. A truly Thatcherite sentiment.

[Huguenot]

PeckhamRose, I think the Steve North quote speaks to the essential problem with this debate.

Steve is projecting intent and motive upon Thatcher for everything that took place within her reign, in addition to ascribing responsibility for events over which she had no control.

If what Steve said was true, then she would maybe deserve the level of vitriol aimed at her. The problem is that it isn't. Virtually nothing that Steve claims would stand up under scrutiny.

I can't be bothered to Fisk Steve's quote, but you could start with the 'decimation of Northern towns' which was the consequence of the economic unviability of their industry, not because of Thatcher's venality.

You could continue with completely bizarre statements like her being guilty of winning an election after the Falklands War - a patent misrepresentation of the motives behind the conflict in addition to a peculiar assertion that after conflicts parliamentarians should organize to lose elections.

But anyway, it's all just a mess.

The question I ask myself is why people choose to believe this stuff - people must know that much of this verbiage is intrinsically flawed, but deliberately overlook this fact to gorge them selves in hatred of a cartoon caricature.

[????]

Absolutely agree with you Huge. I never voted for her, I think many of the policies she pursued were wrong, I think she genuinely though the market would solve many of the issues of say decimated post industrial northern towns which in many it hasn't,t/and didn,t to some terrible social consequences,t. But the re-invention of history and idiotic left wing claims regarding so much of the 1980s is laughable except most people under 30 seem to buy it. This isn't history, it's myth. Take the lovely cosy miners that she decimated, their leadership had bought down a democratically elected govt in the1970s because it was Tory, consensus in the 1970s meant doing what the Unions said, eventually even Labour realised this and huge swathes of traditional labour voters including many trade unionists voted for Thatcher in both 79 and 83. If another person under 30 tells me what a fascist was I am gonna punch them. The defeated 40+ left wingers are just celebrating because the person who helped expos? the poverty of socialism and showed how bankrupt their ideas actually were/are just glad she,s gone....let's just remind ourselves that the Labour Prime Minister in 1976 said that if he was younger he'd emigrate. A Labour Prime Minister.

I,ve broken a sort of internal promise not to get involved in any of this but the utter sh1te that has engulfed twiiter\facebook etc since last week is actually quite depressing.

[right-clicking]

This turned out to be a bit of an eye opener.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/i/b01rsy3t/Lord Saatchi - UK Conservative Party Chairman 2003 - 2005