Reduced service bus 12

[CPR Dave]

Sadiq Khan is in charge of cancelling London bus routes

[Spartacus]

Say what you mean CPR ...

But you're making a valid point, Khan has been in charge for 6 years so has to take a proportion of the blame.

If he hadn't licenced so many uber drivers (other brands are available) then maybe bus use wouldn't have declined as much. If he had applied a fairer price structure then buses may not have run at a loss.

He had 4 years pre pandemic to restructure but all he did was cancel the new route masters because they were associated with the previous mayor.

But I guess, people voted for him again and this is how he's repayed us all...

[jazzer]

And please don't forget Lockdown 1, when he declared he wanted to protect bus drivers (which was right) but then decreed that all passengers must enter the middle doors and no fares were payable as a result. I wonder how much TfL lost as a result. Unfortunately Sadiqi was and remains in charge, so he needs to take responsibility for the financial mis-management.

I however suspect that there is a political "game" in progress between City Hall and Central Govt (Grant Shapps) as the helm, Grant wants one thing and Sadiq is doing everything he can to disagree and create instability.

Maybe the planned changes are just that, plans that Sadiq is using as a bargaining chip with Central Govt, don't know, just guessing.

[Rockets]

Waseley Wrote:

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> Apart from attack Southwark GLA and TfL do you

> have any other opinions Mr/Mrs Rockets? You've

> posted 100s if not 1000s of times and it appears

> that 98 percent is along these lines. Sorry to be

> so confrontational but eventually I had to break.

Waseley - yes, there's a handy feature on the site, just click on my name and then click on see all previous posts and you can see the wide range of topics I have been posting on for the 15 years of posts I have made on the forum......and yes, you are very confrontational..but, to be honest, you have been since you arrived on the forum earlier this year.

The sooner TFL stops being used as a political football by both sides the better it will be for Londoners and yes, I agree, the moment the Mayor becomes a non-political post the moment the Mayor actually starts representing Londoners properly.

[James Barber]

London Mayor Khan is now consulting on scrapping the no. 12 and fifteen other London bus routes -

4, 11, 14, 16, 24, 31, 45, 72, 74, 78, 242, 349, 521, C3 and D7

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/london-bus-routes-axed-tfl-cuts/

London Mayor Khan stood on a platform in 2016 of freezing TfL fares for four years knowing the government planned to with draw much of its TfL subsidy. He then screwed up Crossrail which even now ?4bn over budget and 4 years late is only opening in parts and not all connected - that's another year away.

Having destroyed his budget COVID happened. COVID could have been ridden budget wise but not after the fares freeze and Crossrail financial disaster.

[James Barber]

I think it telling TfL was consulting on reducing n.12 bus route service.

After a short period this was turned into closing no.12 bus route. Extending no.148 along the no.12 bus route to Dulwich Library but at the reduced timetable originally proposed. Having such long route from Dulwich Library to Shepherd's Bush rarely goes well - they then cut the route up to make it more reliable.

Eitherway, if you've red this thread or posted ot it please please please respond to the public consultation to actually have your voice heard - https://haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/busreview

[Spartacus]

Thanks James, for putting it into context.

Out of curiosity, if you were still a Councillor how would you interact with TfL over this situation ?

[DulwichFox]

I remember in the 1950's 12 Bus Route.

HARLESDEN Willesden Junction ( Mon-Sat am journeys / Suns ) - Acton Lane - PARK ROYAL Coronation Road ( Mon-Sat ) - Gipsy Corner - East Acton - Old Oak Road - Uxbridge Road - Shepherds Bush - Notting Hill Gate - Marble Arch - Oxford Circus - Trafalgar Square - Whitehall - Lambeth North - Elephant & Castle - Camberwell Green - Peckham - Barry Road - East Dulwich - Forest Hill - Penge - Anerly - Norwood Junction - Portland Road - Addiscombe - Cherry Orchard Road - East Croydon - Croydon - SOUTH CROYDON Red Deer

DulwichFox

[Waseley]

Mum's family used the number 16. They mainly used the bus including Green Line to Watford for the market. Her sisters and her never learned to drive, nor our grandparents. The 16 has now been truncated. As of course 63. 159 used to run to West Hampstead. But as pointed out the average passenger journey is short, around two miles. So few needto go the old end to end

As a kid went for an event at Charlton FC, 16 to Victoria, 185 to Lewisham or thereabouts, then bus onto Greenwich. Very excited to pass a large football ground and a passenger informed me that it was DHFC. Little did I know I'd live near by ten years later. mum's family was allergic to South of the river.

I'd do it by tube and train now.

[Brian up the hill]

I?m afraid that I don?t think James is being fair.

When Khan became Mayor, TfL?s budget had already been screwed up by dear old Boris, who not only quadrupled its debt to over ?7 billion but also supported and agreed to George Osborne?s removal of the government financial support it had been receiving. This left London as the only western capital which received no support from central government for its public transport. In fact, I believe that before COVID hit, the debt had started to be reduced. The instruction to work from home, as we all know, destroyed the business model of TfL along with the rail franchises and other public transport undertakings. The DfT has given support to TfL through the pandemic but it has consistently failed to offer a settlement which would allow for future planning. The present settlement runs out in a couple of weeks and still nothing has been decided. Most other developed countries, including the USA are investing in public transport as part of a post COVID ?green? recovery, however, the UK is notable in its failure to do so.

As for Crossrail, the budget and schedule were already slipping before Khan?s tenure but the contractors were unwilling to admit this and the Department of Transport, under Failing Grayling did not hold them to account. It?s also true that unforeseen difficulties caused costs to rise, especially at Bond Street.

It?s worth remembering that Khan had promised to freeze fares as part of his manifesto, so when he won, it was to be expected that he should do just that. It?s not such a radical idea after all. Luxembourg has made all its public transport free, Austria has just introduced an annual public transport pass costing ?365 and Germany a monthly rail pass for ?9. The UK, which hosted COP 26 last autumn and which committed itself to tackling the climate emergency, is the only major European nation to be making cuts to public transport and making cheaper, high polluting transport like air and road.

James really should place the blame for TfL?s financial state, along with cuts to public transport, where it belongs. Well and truly in the lap of this government.

[Waseley]

Good post. There is a discussion on whether Khan should have managed budgets better. Livingstone didn't stick to his commitments of conductors, and further reductions. But he will remembered for integrating TfL services through Oyster. We can forgive him for not slashing prices, the silly bendy buses but maybe not for his later behaviour. Johnson was asleep at the wheel when he was hoodwinked by government. Actually I don't think government was devious, rather the classic of him not bothered about detail.

[Spartacus]

So Brian and Co are you implying that Khan is completely blame free?

Or that some blame can be apportioned to him and some elsewhere ?

As was said, the sooner TfL isn't used as a political football, the better for users 🙄

[Rockets]

Remember rule number 1 in the left-wing playbook is if you make a right royal hash of things yourselves blame the Tories...your supporters will lap it up and bark it out like obedient dogs! ;-)

TFL has been mismanaged for years and the last 6 years of that has been under Khan's watch so he has to take some of the responsibility for this - he is not blameless (despite what every Labour councillor and MP will have you believe).

The problem is until such time as Khan and TFL shoulder some of the blame they will carry-on their destructive path of politically motivated transport policy setting that does nothing to benefit the people they are supposed to serve.

[Rockets]

Spartacus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So Brian and Co are you implying that Khan is

> completely blame free?

> Or that some blame can be apportioned to him and

> some elsewhere ?

>

> As was said, the sooner TfL isn't used as a

> political football, the better for users

> 🙄

I think what Brian is saying, amongst other things, is that Khan made an election promise to freeze fares to help get elected and that was taking a political and financial gamble that backfired massively and now TFL is in a big mess.....but the blame for this all lies with central government. Khan was writing cheques he knew he couldn't cash and the Covid hit and the home he dug for himself opened up like a chasm.

When people then try to pin the blame solely on government for TFL's woes it's a bit like listening to Corbyn trying to convince people it was the media that were the problem for his humiliating election defeat that left us with more Tory rule.

[NewWave]

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think it telling TfL was consulting on reducing

> n.12 bus route service.

> After a short period this was turned into closing

> no.12 bus route. Extending no.148 along the no.12

> bus route to Dulwich Library but at the reduced

> timetable originally proposed. Having such long

> route from Dulwich Library to Shepherd's Bush

> rarely goes well - they then cut the route up to

> make it more reliable.

>

> Eitherway, if you've red this thread or posted ot

> it please please please respond to the public

> consultation to actually have your voice heard -

> https://haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/busreview

Thank you.

This proposal is a disaster for myself and my colleagues who work in retail and catering in the West end.

We often finish work late in the evening and rely on the 12 to get home safely reliably.

The train service is unreliable and expensive.

As a 60+ year old woman I like to get one bus virtually door to door (this shouldn't be a luxury in a major city) and the idea of waiting somewhere like Elephant and Castle late at night to get a bus home fills me with anxiety.

Southern train services have been cut and now our one direct bus to central London.

SE21/22/23 is the poor relation when it comes to transport south of the river.

[Penguin68]

Out of curiosity, if you were still a Councillor how would you interact with TfL over this situation ?

I believe that (1) Southwark Council got to hear of this proposal at the same time as the general public (i.e there was no pre-consultation with impacted boroughs) and that (2) the current council is, or will be, opposed to this. I cannot think that any Southwark councillor (of whatever political colour) will happily acquiesce to such a reduction in local services. TfL (and indeed the Mayor) are allowed to ride roughshod over the boroughs - and neither group needs to take decisions in concert with the other.

The Mayor has argued that if he could access the non-hypothecated Road Tax fund revenues for vehicles registered in London all would be well - but this taxation forms part of general taxation and goes towards expenditures entirely non-transport related.