Reduced service bus 12

[Bic Basher]

The way we use buses is changing. While night bus passengers still use the night routes to get into or out of town, they've become part of a link of commuting to work.

Between Dulwich Library and Peckham, there are buses every 6 minutes (12 and 197 combined) which connect with Peckham Rye station which has the Overground which has changed commuting habits along with existing Thameslink, Southeastern and Southern trains.

It can work out faster if you time it right to get the 63 on Forest Hill Road, then get off at Peckham Rye and commute to Blackfriars, City Thameslink or Kings Cross St Pancras on Thameslink than stay on the bus.

I've also mentioned in the LTN thread that the time buses require to do the distance is longer since boroughs including Southwark have implemented 20mph speed limits, while this has made the roads safer for cyclists and pedestrians, it has made the time even longer.

If I lived on Barry Road, there's no chance I'd stay on the 12. If I was going to the Elephant, I'd change for the 63/363 at Peckham Rye which is faster than going via Camberwell and Walworth Road.

[Drxyster]

I think if you check the 63 and 363 travel via Peckham along the Old Kent road, not the Walworth Road.

[NewWave]

Penguin68 Wrote:

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> The 176 goes to Leicester Sq I believe, which is

> central West End.

>

> Only in theory (and I thought it was meant to be

> Tottenham Court Road?). In my experience it very

> frequently terminates on the bridge before even

> turning into the Strand.

But its not Oxford Circus ...And on the occasion I've had to get the 176 to work as previously stated they often terminate it early.

I think our area is really badly served by Public transport compared to South west London.

[Waseley]

I waited at Bricklayers Arms not realising that the 363 goes over the flyover. I was on another bus going up the OKR making the most of the free change of bus but got off the wrong stop. I also travel to Elephant sometimes where we have the luxury of three buses, or maybe more.

Occasionally used 185 to work but important to time it before the school run. Fascinating discussion!

I've only fallen asleep once on the night bus, many moon ago

[Sue]

Drxyster Wrote:

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> I think if you check the 63 and 363 travel via

> Peckham along the Old Kent road, not the Walworth

> Road.

Isn't that why Bic Basher said the 63 was quicker than the 12 to get to the Elephant, or have I misunderstood?

Because the 12 goes via Camberwell and the Walworth Road?

[Bic Basher]

Sue Wrote:

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> Drxyster Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I think if you check the 63 and 363 travel via

> > Peckham along the Old Kent road, not the

> Walworth

> > Road.

>

>

> Isn't that why Bic Basher said the 63 was quicker

> than the 12 to get to the Elephant, or have I

> misunderstood?

>

> Because the 12 goes via Camberwell and the

> Walworth Road?

I thought I made it clear that the 63/363 are faster than the 12? But clearly not for some.

[Nigello]

The Walworth Road is a lot less clogged than it used to be, as is C Green. The real slog is LL these days between M and S and the rail station. I prefer to walk much of that stretch and pick it up at the station.

[Sue]

Nigello Wrote:

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> The Walworth Road is a lot less clogged than it

> used to be, as is C Green. The real slog is LL

> these days between M and S and the rail station. I

> prefer to walk much of that stretch and pick it up

> at the station.

The 12 doesn't go down LL or past the station, does it? It goes down Barry Road.

[Spartacus]

There's an article on bbc London news about the mayors plan to "have a managed decline in bus services in Central London" by reducing routes that duplicate each other and redeployment the buses to the outer boroughs.

The report shows how difficult it is for some commuters to get on already packed buses.

Tje cynic in me wonders if the redeployed buses to the outer zone is also a way to justify extending the ULEZ as the outer boroughs will be better served by buses.🤔

Food for thought, and I suspect the removal of duplicated routes in central london will backfire as badly as a badly tuned polluting car when commuters start to return to the office on mass.

[Nigello]

Don't underestimate the passengers' ability to make bus journeys poorer than they need to be. How many folk are so feared of heights that they congregate around the stairwell, or so claustrophobic they won't shift from the exit doors, or take up way too many spaces with their bags or arse around and act like it's their living room? Sounds trite, inconsequential but imagine how many people are making it that little bit less pleasant, perhaps making non-moronic passengers think twice about using the service, which then is seen to be less of use and then, poof, it's gone. Sure, the routes are in the hands of the route masters but they do take into account daily usage and I can't blame some people if they decide the bus is too much to be endured.

[Lebanums]

It takes me more than double the time already to go to work by public transport than by car. I can hardly see the incentive for me to use it if I have to wait even longer due to packed buses.

[Waseley]

Cauliflowerear Wrote:

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> The number 12 is definitely a bus route to avoid in the early evening, since it passes throu Peckham, the ill mannered and feral kids from the area will have decorated the entire upstairs with

gnawed chicken bones, ketchup smeared chicken boxes and other such detritus. I think kids like that shouldn't have free travel at all, particularly when they all bundle on, cause a huge racket and mess, then get off en masse at the nextstop.

In deed. Bring Bach the birch. Put them in the army. Their parents are no doubt drug dealers and/or in prison. When I was young nobody ever did anything wrong. Perhaps we need to build a wall around Dulwich.

[johnie]

Yes, makes me sick to the stomach. Posts like this.

[Rockets]

Hey, don?t give the trolls the oxygen???eventually they?ll get bored or banned

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Spartacus Wrote:

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> There's an article on bbc London news about the

> mayors plan to "have a managed decline in bus

> services in Central London"

Have you got a link by any chance? I can't see anything on there now and Google isn't throwing up any results with the quoted text. I'm probably missing it

[Spartacus]

Billy, it wax on the television news , sorry should have been clearer

[Spartacus]

It's ten minutes in on the evening news (6pm) for today https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0017psx/bbc-london-evening-news-25052022

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

speakwithmaria Wrote:

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> try searching the words

>

> tfl managed decline

Thank you - found it. It's that Khan is advocating a "managed decline", it's that if he doesn't get the money he wants, he will have to implement a managed decline plan. The phrase has been used a number of times by TfL/London over the past couple of years when explaining how bad things will go if they don't get the funding.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/tfl-funding-bus-cuts-sadiq-khan-government-elizabeth-line-b1001116.html?amp

[Spartacus]

Billy, it's not about the funding from central government but a managed decline in the number of buses in inner London so that he can provide more buses to outer London.

The general managed decline you mentioned is about the whole of TfL and is a different strategy to get funding. This seems to be more about deployment of resources and potentially a carrot to encourage outer London car users to support an expanded ULEZ but the BBC london clip shows how so many are reliant on buses and reducing their service is going to impact them badly.

[Bic Basher]

There are rumours among the bus community including those who work for the company that operates Route 12 that it may be cut entirely which would leave Barry Road without a bus route into Central London.

[jazzer]

Cutting the 12 bus route will be a drastic curtailment. I can see the 363 also being at risk.

[Spartacus]

In the old days, the 12 used to run from Coulsdon to Notting Hill via East Dulwich, then the route was curtailed to Coulsdon then cut off from Notting hill so a total cut wouldn't surprise me

[Jenijenjen]

It went as far as Shephards Bush until 1994 with the section between Oxford Circus and Notting Hill Gate being withdrawn in 2004.

[Rockets]

Looks increasingly as if it is going completely along with a lot of other routes. What's the justification, are people not using it?

[Spartacus]

Rockets Wrote:

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> Looks increasingly as if it is going completely

> along with a lot of other routes. What's the

> justification, are people not using it?

Mad Mayor ?