Reduced service bus 12

[Mabaker]

What is the justification for reducing the service yet again to about 14 minutes between services. This part of S.E London already has an inferior public transport system. How is cutting services helping in the fight to reduce carbon emissions? And what about our councillors? Are they doing anything to fight our corner with TFL?

[Angelina]

14 minutes - is that so unreasonable?

[jazzer]

See https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,2269793,2270300#msg-2270300

[Mabaker]

Well, considering that it is a main route going into central London, and they used to be about 6 minutes apart, and compared to most other routes which are more frequent and haven't been cut then yes, unreasonable in my opinion.

[Mabaker]

Forgot about that earlier thread jazzer

[Monkey]

Angelina Wrote:

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> 14 minutes - is that so unreasonable?

As you have to add a good 6-10mns extra, yes.

20mns is the time it takes me to cycle to London Bridge. Seems to be the only way to get anywhere these days.

[Angelina]

14 minutes between buses is hardly unreasonable or so inconvenient that you cannot get where you need to be.

Factually, fewer buses on the routes make the journeys quicker.

You will know that TFL has had fewer customer journeys since lockdowns and - while picking up - they are subject to a Government funding deal.

I think it is reasonable for the agreement to be reduced costs from (including) fewer buses - even is that is ONLY four an hour.

[Waseley]

I'm a great fan of buses and feel that we should recognise a fairly decent service rather than criticising TfL. I'm far more bothered about evenly spacing the service, it being frustrating when they classically come in twos and threes. And when the 185 stops in Camberwell to even out the service, when there was no problem in the first place. These observations exaggerate the issue as it doesn't happen that frequently, it just feels that way.

[Spartacus]

The 12 always used to get packed after a few stops pre covid

Whilst passenger numbers are reduced, there is still potential this reduced service to get packed quickly, so a 14 minute gap could end up being a 28 minute plus wait for a bus with room to get on.

To encourage people back into buses, they need to be accessible, not so packed that you can't get on and frequent. If not people being people will stick with cars, taxis or other easier options.

[NewWave]

Mabaker Wrote:

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> Well, considering that it is a main route going

> into central London, and they used to be about 6

> minutes apart, and compared to most other routes

> which are more frequent and haven't been cut then

> yes, unreasonable in my opinion.

agree!

This is the only direct local bus route to the central west end.

When the overground isn't running its my (and I'm sure others)only means to get to work without a few changes .

With the encouragement to get people back into work (rather than WFH) and to use public transport reducing the frequency of this always busy and very important Bus route is just ill considered and yet more proof that Nobody at TFL gives a damn about anyone who lives outside zone 1.

[Mabaker]

Agreed. I'd like to see a comparison chart of the frequency of other bus routes outside zone 1 We would then know where Dulwich stands in the bus route pecking order. . And I bet we're no where near the top

[Waseley]

New wave, what a ridiculous and ill informed comment about TfL. As others have said they have to make ends meet under difficult circumstances. Many I know are very passionate about their work keeping London moving. Shame that it is easier to knock than to praise.

[jazzer]

Mabaker Wrote:

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> Forgot about that earlier thread jazzer

Can you explain WHY?

[KidKruger]

The 176 goes to Leicester Sq I believe, which is central West End.

NewWave Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Mabaker Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Well, considering that it is a main route going

> > into central London, and they used to be about

> 6

> > minutes apart, and compared to most other

> routes

> > which are more frequent and haven't been cut

> then

> > yes, unreasonable in my opinion.

>

> agree!

> This is the only direct local bus route to the

> central west end.

> When the overground isn't running its my (and I'm

> sure others)only means to get to work without a

> few changes .

> With the encouragement to get people back into

> work (rather than WFH) and to use public transport

> reducing the frequency of this always busy and

> very important Bus route is just ill considered

> and yet more proof that Nobody at TFL gives a damn

> about anyone who lives outside zone 1.

[Nigello]

Make use of the 1 hour grace period and hop on:off buses if necessary. Times are harder than usual for TfL.

[Jenijenjen]

In a week or so?s time, it will be possible to go from Denmark Hill or PR to Faringdon then on to the Elizabeth Line to TCR and Bond Street

[Penguin68]

The 176 goes to Leicester Sq I believe, which is central West End.

Only in theory (and I thought it was meant to be Tottenham Court Road?). In my experience it very frequently terminates on the bridge before even turning into the Strand.

[jazzer]

Jenijenjen Wrote:

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> In a week or so?s time, it will be possible to go

> from Denmark Hill or PR to Faringdon then on to

> the Elizabeth Line to TCR and Bond Street

You can already go from Nunhead with a change at Blackfriars to St. Pancras.

[Peckhampam]

or ED to London bridge and then the Jubilee line-super quick

[Angelina]

lots of options

[Spartacus]

And when train services are suspended or disrupted the 12 is going to get rammed 🤔

[Mabaker]

It's all very well talking about various changes you can make along the route if you're fit and able bodied. Not so helpful if you are elderly and have trouble getting on and off the bus or if you have other mobility problems or need wheelchair access. Cuts to services just make these journeys even more difficult. Some people will then have to rely on going by car, thus defeating TFL's efforts to get cars off the roads.

[Angelina]

have you contacted TFL and said what times are bottlenecks and need more buses?

[Waseley]

In deed,report back after you have spoken with TfL.

Elsewhere there needs to be accessible transport but this will always involve some difficult decisions over funding. The anti LTN thread frequently played the disabled travel card. It seems to be the go to for many unhappy with the state of transport.

Ps TfL had spent zillions on an accessible bus fleet and improving access to tube and train stations. Far from perfect but still needs to be acknowledged.

If I wanted a whinge is that we don't need all black cabs to be fully accessible but if they changed that requirement cabbieswould spend even longer on Talksport and LBC phone ins

[Nigello]

I agree - the accessibilty for people on wheels has improved and I see more people using wheelchairs on buses than ever before, which does not mean things cannot be improved more. We cannot expect to have an almost bespoke service for anyone - in or out of a mobility device - when there are options that make the money go further - curtailed routes are not ideal but as long as you can change to anotehr service and not have to pay again, several times in the hour, be thankful and use any ire to write to your MP and transport minister. Enjoy the ride