Trains towards London Bridge not stopping at East Dulwich today!

[goldilocks]

Problem with the platform 'equipment' apparently - though the mind boggles as East Dulwich is barely a station, nevermind one with 'equipment'. Apparently you can join the service at North Dulwich or Peckham Rye.

Southbound services will be stopping at East Dulwich.

[KidKruger]

Yep, PR stn working so you can get trains to LB.

[Sue]

What an absolute pain.

In the good old days not so long ago, you could have got a 40 straight to London Bridge.

[heartblock]

PTAL in this area is already one of the worse in London. No 40 was a great route to LB and Guys Hospital.

[goldilocks]

Its not one of the worst in the area around East Dulwich Station - it is in the leafier bits of Dulwich - mainly cos its a straight line measurement and the playing fields obviously don't have bus routes...

40 was a good bus - and it is ridiculous that it now doesn't go to London Bridge, but thankfully today its just East Dulwich thats the issue and not the whole line.

[Bic Basher]

goldilocks Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Its not one of the worst in the area around East

> Dulwich Station - it is in the leafier bits of

> Dulwich - mainly cos its a straight line

> measurement and the playing fields obviously don't

> have bus routes...

You've conveniently forgotten the Dog Kennel Hill Estate.

[heartblock]

PTAL doesn't rise above 3 until one gets to Herne Hill or Peckham - 6 is the best and parts of Dulwich and ED barely get to 1 or 2.

[Earl Aelfheah]

PTAL at ED Station is a 4 as it is for most of ED. Goldilocks is right about the Village - If you paved over all the green spaces, PTAL there would rise, but probably not something anyone wants to see.

Agree about the number 40. Don't know why it no longer goes to London Bridge. That said, we can now get the East London Line from Denmark Hill which is an improvement.

[heartblock]

4 at a station... great, let's dig out the Champers. You know 4 is pretty poor for London, most of Brixton is 6. But you know ..... yea!

[Earl Aelfheah]

4 across most of East Dulwich. The Village get's a lower score, because it's low density / full of large green spaces.

[Bic Basher]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> 4 across most of East Dulwich. The Village get's a

> lower score, because it's low density / full of

> large green spaces.

2 around the Forest Hill Road area, plus the area surrounding Overhill and Underhill Road which is served by the P13. The area around Forest Hill Station and Hornimans is a 6 presumably due to having more bus routes and a very regular train service.

[heartblock]

""PTAL is a measure of accessibility used by TfL based on distance and frequency of public transport. The areas with a high level of public transport accessibility usually score 5, 6a or 6b on the PTAL scale, whilst areas with very low levels of public transport accessibility will score 0, 1a or 1b.

The Dulwich area has a low level of public transport accessibility. Areas around the main stations only reach a PTAL 3 and The Village a PTAL 2 whilst the main commercial area around East Dulwich has a PTAL 3. Other parts of Dulwich, particularly those where schools are located have a level 2 of accessibility translating into a higher use of car and coach for pupils outside of Dulwich.

This is confirmed also by more general DfT accessibility statistics which show that, in general the area has a lower public transport accessibility level than the remainder of Southwark whilst by car it tends to be on par with the other parts of the borough or somewhat higher for hospitals, particularly due to the proximity of Dulwich Community Hospital".

Southwark Council - Dulwich Area Traffic Management Study Final Report

April 2018

London Borough of Southwark 23130501

[ianr]

Disruption at East Dulwich expected until the end of the day.

Can you tell me more about the incident?

A problem has been identified with the procedure for stopping trains formed of 8 coaches at East Dulwich, affecting Platform 1. This platform is used by trains towards London Bridge. In some cases, train doors would not be in the correct location alongside equipment on the platforms.

Southern services which call at this station are generally formed of 8 coaches, and therefore we are unable to call at this station in this direction.

A plan to reopen the platform is being formulated. Until we can confirm that the correct procedure is in place, we will only be able to use Platform 2.

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/295465.aspx

[goldilocks]

you've conveniently misunderstood the sentence, so probably best not to try 'snark' until you do.

PTAL is not 'one of the worst in southwark' in the area around ED station, it is worse in the leafier bits of Dulwich

HTH!

Bic Basher Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> goldilocks Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Its not one of the worst in the area around

> East

> > Dulwich Station - it is in the leafier bits of

> > Dulwich - mainly cos its a straight line

> > measurement and the playing fields obviously

> don't

> > have bus routes...

>

> You've conveniently forgotten the Dog Kennel Hill

> Estate.

[heartblock]

Oh the gift that keeps giving...rude and wrong at the same time.

"Areas around the main stations only reach a PTAL 3"

[goldilocks]

My comments were at Bic Basher not you - also I didn't mention the 3.

[colb2015]

Slight off-topic, I haven't been a regular user recently but the service to/from London Bridge seems like it's been reduced . Is this temporary? Noticed that the last train from London Bridge to ED is 10.30. Recall it being a lot later previously.

[Bic Basher]

kerry2015 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Slight off-topic, I haven't been a regular user

> recently but the service to/from London Bridge

> seems like it's been reduced . Is this temporary?

> Noticed that the last train from London Bridge to

> ED is 10.30. Recall it being a lot later

> previously.

There's a 90 minute gap between services after 2230. The final train to East Dulwich is the 0001 to Crystal Palace.

From May 15th, the 2231 to Beckenham Junction will be the final train which continues to be an appalling state of affairs, although the Overground will still run after this time where you can change at Denmark Hill or Peckham Rye for local buses.

[KidKruger]

This is interesting..

Something must have changed to render platform 1 as unusable for 8-coach trains, because they?ve been running them for decades through ED stn.

Implication is either platform has to change (won?t happen overnight) or trains/train lengths need to change (unlikely to be resolved overnight).

Or they need to fessup what?s really the problem 🤣

ianr Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Disruption at East Dulwich expected until the end

> of the day.

>

> Can you tell me more about the incident?

>

> A problem has been identified with the procedure

> for stopping trains formed of 8 coaches at East

> Dulwich, affecting Platform 1. This platform is

> used by trains towards London Bridge. In some

> cases, train doors would not be in the correct

> location alongside equipment on the platforms.

>

> Southern services which call at this station are

> generally formed of 8 coaches, and therefore we

> are unable to call at this station in this

> direction.

>

> A plan to reopen the platform is being formulated.

> Until we can confirm that the correct procedure is

> in place, we will only be able to use Platform 2.

> https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions

> /295465.aspx

[Bic Basher]

It may well be the case until they come up with something long-term, Southern may send a dispatcher to send the trains off on Platform 1.

There was a similar issue with New Cross Gate platform 5 with Southern services which are made up of 8 or 10 coaches where Southern had dispatchers sent up for their trains. London Overground weren't affected.

[KidKruger]

I mean, why wasn?t this issue arising last week ?

[Earl Aelfheah]

heartblock Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ""PTAL is a measure of accessibility used by TfL

> based on distance and frequency of public

> transport. The areas with a high level of public

> transport accessibility usually score 5, 6a or 6b

> on the PTAL scale, whilst areas with very low

> levels of public transport accessibility will

> score 0, 1a or 1b.

> The Dulwich area has a low level of public

> transport accessibility. Areas around the main

> stations only reach a PTAL 3 and The Village a

> PTAL 2 whilst the main commercial area around East

> Dulwich has a PTAL 3. Other parts of Dulwich,

> particularly those where schools are located have

> a level 2 of accessibility translating into a

> higher use of car and coach for pupils outside of

> Dulwich.

> This is confirmed also by more general DfT

> accessibility statistics which show that, in

> general the area has a lower public transport

> accessibility level than the remainder of

> Southwark whilst by car it tends to be on par with

> the other parts of the borough or somewhat higher

> for hospitals, particularly due to the proximity

> of Dulwich Community Hospital".

> Southwark Council - Dulwich Area Traffic

> Management Study Final Report

> April 2018

> London Borough of Southwark 23130501

Most of East Dulwich has a PTAL of 4 (on scale of 0-6). It?s lower in the Village because large parts of it are green space. It could be better, but it?s not terrible and it?s not a good argument (as you often deploy it), for accepting forever greater car use.

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/urban-planning-and-construction/planning-with-webcat/webcat

[Rockets]

Rahx3 - not entirely correct - a small part of East Dulwich, closest to the station, has a PTAL of 4 - the rest has a PTAL of 3 or 2 and the Village and Peckham Rye areas are even worse.

This is why the council referred to the Dulwich area having "poor" PTAL scores in the Transport Report of 2018. A lower PTAL score is one of the reasons for increased car use (because there aren't public transport alternatives) and one of reasons why the council said LTNs should only be put in in areas with high PTAL scores. Dulwich does not have high PTAL scores.

[heartblock]

Actually if you use Rahx3's link - it shows that SE22 has a PTAL of 3 overall ( PTAL output for Base Year

3, SE22 London SE22, UK Easting: 533972, Northing: 174602) and SE21 2 overall(PTAL output for Base Year 2 SE21 London SE21, UK Easting: 533207, Northing: 172829)

Thanks Rahx3 nice link.

Here it is SE21 https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/urban-planning-and-construction/planning-with-webcat/webcat?Input=London%20SE21%2C%20UK&locationId=ChIJxfDoilUBdkgRCMiU3DRkKu0&scenario=Base%20Year&type=Ptal

Se22 https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/urban-planning-and-construction/planning-with-webcat/webcat?Input=London%20SE22%2C%20UK&locationId=ChIJWwzt2YQDdkgR2PRFR_mXuSI&scenario=Base%20Year&type=Ptal

PTAL is public transport in an area - not a train station or bus stop - it is a measure of how efficiently PT can transport one from one's home to a place of work or other destination.

Brixton 6b https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/urban-planning-and-construction/planning-with-webcat/webcat?Input=Brixton%2C%20London%2C%20UK&locationId=ChIJ0fUEMjkEdkgRkcf2eo-_Kdk&scenario=Base%20Year&type=Ptal

Peckham Rye 6a

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/urban-planning-and-construction/planning-with-webcat/webcat?Input=Peckham%2C%20London%2C%20UK&locationId=ChIJTcNKP6cDdkgRKAPfDcz_IWU&scenario=Base%20Year&type=Ptal

Great link. Thanks. East Dulwich and the Village - very poor PTAL, a terrible idea to put LTNs in when PTAL so low.So when a train service is cut it must drop to being really, really terrible.

[CPR Dave]

My bit of my road has a PTAL of 2 according to that map, as do other parts of Goose Green ward and larger parts of East Dulwich.