Post Natal Depression

[pommie]

Just wondered if any mums on here have suffered with this? Also when does it usually occur? Is it only when the baby is young?

[Saffron]

Yes, I've had PND. Generally I think it's listed that PND starts from 4-6 wks postpartum, but this a just a rough guideline. Personally, I knew by week 2 that I was not well in myself. Also, I've heard of women not developing PND until several months postpartum. Although we generally think of depression as affecting mood, sometimes PND can manifest as mainly physical symptoms, eg insomnia, weight loss/gain, etc. I had a short course of sertraline (which is ok for b/fing mothers) and some acupuncture, which made a huge difference.

The EPDS or similar is often used to help in the diagnosis of PND:

http://psychology-tools.com/epds/

xx

[Lochie]

I have!

I think depression can be considered 'post natal' up to 2 years after birth, but it maybe one year, I can't remember properly so please forgive me.

I was diagnosed 6 weeks after birth, it was heavily influenced by hormones. However I am sure (and can understand why) a woman can be post natally depressed long after birth due to other factors such as sleep deprivation etc

There are a few women in the family room who have suffered and can offer words of wisdom and advice if this does concern you. Also knowledge of different routes to get better

X

[pommie]

my youngest turned 1 on 2 march and just lately I have been feeling really low, tired, sad, depressed, not eating, crying a lot for no reason. People are saying it could be PND but I am not sure

[Lochie]

Poor you. I would go and see GP. You don't have to make a commitment to treatment, but can just discuss your symptoms and see what they say. You will get better if it is PND, treatment (counselling and/or medication) works very well. I hope you feel better soon pommie.

Be kind to yourself too....being a mum to little ones is hard and it is even harder when you feel low

X

[midivydale]

Hi Pommie,

I feel for you. Do you have a good GP? They can help with a diagnosis and you dont have to commit to treatment if you dont feel ready for it.

Well done for posting, when you seek help (and get it) you may find that you feel better fairly quickly. In my experince and those of others that I have talked to is that when the right diagnosis has been made the treatment works very well.

Best of luck and like lochie says, be kind on yourself.

PM me if you want to ask questions, happy to chat.

X

[Smiler]

It can also be "ordinary" depression. I have struggled the most more than two years after both children, long-term sleep deprivation, handling the toddler stage, work/childcare, strains on relationships etc.

[jollybaby]

Hi Pommie - I had postnatal depression with my last pregnancy (and with hindsight antenatal

Depression too). I felt at my worst at around 2-4 weeks when the sleep deprivation was really kicking in.

I know that some women are recognised to have late onset PND, but In a way it doesn't really matter whether you have PND or 'normal' depression. The treatment is very much the same. Please do see your GP and I hope you feel better soon.

[Yak]

I didn't have PND but "straightforward" depression which kicked in around around the 1 year mark. Good luck getting it sorted - a sympathetic GP is a good first port of call. Let us know how you get on if you feel able to. x

[pommie]

been to the docs today, she has signed me off work, given me a prescription for some "happy" pills and I also have to go to counselling.

Just hoping the happy pills work for me and I start to feel more "me" soon

[LauraHW]

Sorry that you've been feeling low. I've recently heard that there's a link between stopping breastfeeding and depression so am not sure if this applies to you?

All the best

[pommie]

I stopped breastfeeding when my youngest was quite young so I doubt this is the reason!

[Saila]

I was very down for a week when I stopped bf. But after about a week, things improved.

Not sure its a long lasting thing - just hormones rebalancing maybe

[midivydale]

Hi Pommie, well done for seeing your GP. I noticed that as well as medication/therapy some lifestyle changes helped me feel miles better. Everyone is different but I thought it cant hurt to attack this from all angels - right?

I felt alot better once I included omega 3+6, had regular small meals with as much wholesome food as possible (Low GI for stab bloodsugar levels), avoiding too much coffee and alcohol etc) really did make a difference.

Everyones advice is also to sleep alot but this is of course easier said than done with a baby/toddler. I found that when sleep deprivation was at its worst spending time outside in the day was vital for a vitamin D boost. This helps boost mood as well.

I, and many others I have talked to also feared that the meds "wouldnt work for me" but remember that these thoughts are part of the symptoms. When I was very low and thought I would never get better an amazing forumite and friend (lochie) kept saying to me, You WILL get better and feel more like your self. You WILL.

And you will too.

Hang in there and in the meantime, be kind to yourself.

x

[Saffron]

Breastfeeding does tend to be protective for PND, and suddenly stopping b/fing in the early days postpartum is certainly linked to PND. However, I successfully b/f my daughter, and still had PND. :( So I suspect that there are plenty of exceptions.

I agree with Midivydale. It can be helpful to try different things. Sometimes a combined approach is useful, and if one thing doesn't work, you can always try something else. Personally I didn't find that sertraline made me feel happier, it just stopped me from unravelling and really improved my sleep. Then I was stable enough to start some new coping strategies.

If your GP hasn't done it already, it's probably worth having a blood test to rule out thyroid problems or anaemia. Although these don't directly cause PND, they can make depression worse. Hope it all gets better soon. xx

[littlebelka]

I had ordinary depression when my 2nd daughter was just 3 months.

What I realised for myself.

1. whenever possible, find yourself a private therapist. On NHS you will wait for centuries and there are only limited numbers of sessions.

2. If you are offered antidepressants, make sure you are aware of the side effects and warnings. It is not compulsory to take them in the first place according to PALS. Shameless drug salesmen in the disguise of the medical professionals knew perfectly well I was mostly on my own with two children under three, but tried to sell me me the tablets at any opportunity.

Here are some side effects of Setraline, could anyone tell me can one afford such things in the above circumstances?

http://www.nhs.uk/medicine-guides/pages/MedicineSideEffects.aspx?condition=Depression&medicine=sertraline&preparation=

Very common: More than 1 in 10 people who take Sertraline hydrochloride

difficulty sleeping

dry mouth

feeling dizzy

nausea

sexual dysfunction including ejaculation problems or erectile dysfunction. Sexual dysfunction may affect men and women

sleepiness

tiredness

withdrawal symptoms can occur when this medicine is stopped. These include feeling dizzy, paraesthesiae, difficulty sleeping, strange dreams, feeling agitated or anxious, nausea, vomiting, tremors or headaches

3. Research about the diet. Definitely increase on bananas (they increase serotonin), pineapples, poultry, shellfish and green veg.

Cut on sweets and alcohol.

4. Exercise when possible, yoga and swimming are great. Keep your back straight, do not hunch your back. It squashes your lungs and heart and aggravates the matters.

Hope you will find this useful.

[Saffron]

littlebelka Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Here are some side effects of Setraline, could

> anyone tell me can one afford such things in the

> above circumstances?

> http://www.nhs.uk/medicine-guides/pages/MedicineSi

> deEffects.aspx?condition=Depression&medicine=sertr

> aline&preparation=

>

> Very common: More than 1 in 10 people who take

> Sertraline hydrochloride

> difficulty sleeping

> dry mouth

> feeling dizzy

> nausea

> sexual dysfunction including ejaculation problems

> or erectile dysfunction. Sexual dysfunction may

> affect men and women

> sleepiness

> tiredness

> withdrawal symptoms can occur when this medicine

> is stopped. These include feeling dizzy,

> paraesthesiae, difficulty sleeping, strange

> dreams, feeling agitated or anxious, nausea,

> vomiting, tremors or headaches

Hmm, not sure I understand you?

I got sertraline for free on the NHS. I requested it after doing research for myself, no pushy drugs reps.

As for side effects, well my PND was so bad that I would happily have swapped it for all those effects.

Drugs are not the answer for everyone, but many people do benefit from them. It's unfortunate when people feel manipulated. Ultimately it should always be down to the individual to decide what treatment will be best. And it helps to keep an open mind. xx

[littlebelka]

For some people pills have worked, for some not. I simply knew there are better ways which worked for me and I took them. I refused to take medicines first of all that I was not sure will it affect the quality of my milk and they will not solve the actual issues, which caused the depression. That's why I demanded counselling and I had CBT, which helped me to cure the actual depression, but not to solve the roots of the problems. For this I have hired private therapist and I should have done it straight away if I knew who to speak to. And why to solve people's issues? There will be less relapses, less people will take medicines and pharmaceutic companies will loose on it. They are first of all concerned with their profits, not our wellbeing. Even if someone gets these pills for free, taxpayer still pays for this. Yoga practice relieved the symptoms, as the pills would do, but who would profit from yoga on the long term?

Medical Professionals were very keen to offer me drugs and looked at me like at some idiot, because I refused to take those pills. Only the CBT therapist said it is my choice to take them or not. Otherwise nobody had a basic conscience to say a word about side effects. People just acted as the salesmen. I made research later and was really appalled. How can I be sleepy with 2 children under three years old? What if my child will run on the road and I am slowed down and would not be able to stop her on time? Or feel dizzy and tumble down the stairs while holding the baby in my arms? If anything would happen it would be I to blame, why I haven't read the instruction B4, what I was thinking about when accepting the treatment. I had enough of such situations. So the next time I go for the therapist straight away and won't even speak with GP about it.

[mrsS]

pommie, I am glad you got help and hope that you will feel better soon, in my experience antidepressants take the worst of depression/anxiety away and allows me to do other things that increases my well being, such as eating right, spending time outside, meeting up with friends, exercising and so on.

littlebelka, I am sorry that you felt manipulated but glad that you found different ways to deal with your depression. For some people, including myself and also my sister who had severe depression and post partum psychosis, medication (in my case sertraline) was a lifesaver. I can live with having a dry mouth, which is the only side effect I have experienced, but I can't live a functioning life if I am constantly thinking morbid thoughts and having panic attacks.

I've never felt pressured to take medication and I am sorry to hear that you had a different experience.

[littlebelka]

mrsS , thank you very much for the kind words.

Pommie, hope you'll get well soon.

[Ellie78]

I was pressured to take meds - it was the only real option offered to me for PND. I'm still not sure it IS PND in many people's definition of it - if it was/is then then it is relatively mild in comparison to some. My low mood was and is caused by sleep deprivation, which I've always responded to very emotionally, baby or no baby. I felt disappointed that my only option (according to the NHS) was drugs - I didn't feel they were for me at the time, and I still don't. I felt that my body was already de-stabilised by birth, bring, and sleep deprivation and I didn't want to add to that - and I wasn't (and am not now) at such a low point I didn't care. I'm still teary at times, still find it hard to cope with little sleep, and I am STILL on the waiting list for CBT, which I insisted on. I first went to the GP at the beginning of Jan, when my son was just 6 months, but I'd talked to them about my mood before that, at about November - the HV recommended meds then too.

Grr. anyway. I have come to terms with my low mood/no sleep. I feel much better when my son sleeps for a bit or has a good stretch. It's been quite rocky for us in that department.

I wish there was a more holistic approach offered. I think midivydale is right - there are lots of things you can do to help yourself, with regards to diet/behaviour. I really had to push for CBT, and I'm still pushing for it (it was only offered to me on Mondays/Tuesdays and I now work both these days - I can't take time off). I'm sure that's not everyone's experience but it was mine. Nutritional advice would also have been good. And a blood test - I asked for one, to check iron levels etc, not given. But my GPs are rubbish and I am moving surgery.

[Saffron]

Sertraline is classed as safe for b/fing and does not affect the quality of milk. xx

[Saffron]

Ellie78 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I was pressured to take meds - it was the only

> real option offered to me for PND. I'm still not

> sure it IS PND in many people's definition of it -

> if it was/is then then it is relatively mild in

> comparison to some. My low mood was and is caused

> by sleep deprivation, which I've always responded

> to very emotionally, baby or no baby. I felt

> disappointed that my only option (according to the

> NHS) was drugs - I didn't feel they were for me at

> the time, and I still don't. I felt that my body

> was already de-stabilised by birth, bring, and

> sleep deprivation and I didn't want to add to that

> - and I wasn't (and am not now) at such a low

> point I didn't care. I'm still teary at times,

> still find it hard to cope with little sleep, and

> I am STILL on the waiting list for CBT, which I

> insisted on. I first went to the GP at the

> beginning of Jan, when my son was just 6 months,

> but I'd talked to them about my mood before that,

> at about November - the HV recommended meds then

> too.

> Grr. anyway. I have come to terms with my low

> mood/no sleep. I feel much better when my son

> sleeps for a bit or has a good stretch. It's been

> quite rocky for us in that department.

>

> I wish there was a more holistic approach offered.

> I think midivydale is right - there are lots of

> things you can do to help yourself, with regards

> to diet/behaviour. I really had to push for CBT,

> and I'm still pushing for it (it was only offered

> to me on Mondays/Tuesdays and I now work both

> these days - I can't take time off). I'm sure

> that's not everyone's experience but it was mine.

> Nutritional advice would also have been good. And

> a blood test - I asked for one, to check iron

> levels etc, not given. But my GPs are rubbish and

> I am moving surgery.

Unfortunately the treatment for PND can be quite hit-or-miss on the NHS it seems. In contrast to your experience, I was initially told that drug therapy was not available. I was having suicidal ideations, and I was told that I could only have counselling as therapy - after a ~14 week wait! The GP also brushed off my request for bloodwork, despite a history of haematological problems.

After I changed to different NHS GPs at a different clinic, I got the treatment I wanted that helped me. I also got a blood test, which resulted in an immediate referral to a haematologist. The GPs have also said that at any point I can also have a referral to a dietitian if I want it.

In retrospect, I should have moved to a different surgery sooner. Definitely seek additional opinions elsewhere if you're not happy with your treatment options. The NHS should not confine people to a single treatment option because everyone is different and will be helped by different things, whether its meds or counselling, diet, etc. xx

[midivydale]

MrsS, lovely that you posted an update on your wellbeing, I am sure many forumites have been thinking about you.

Ellie, I understand where you are comming from 100%. I could have written your post myself, in fact I am sure I have.

Sleepdeprivation is truly awful and has always had a huge emotional impact for me. What I did find on Sertraline was that a) I slept better (less anxiety) and b)I coped with sleepdeprivation alot better emotionally.

I also wouldnt say that sertraline made me "happy" but they enabled me to help myself. Without them, I dont think that I would be in the good place I am now. I am sure that I would have missed out on alot of joy from my son's first year.

Having said that I understand and respect that they are not for everyone.

[Saffron]

littlebelka Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Even if someone gets these pills for

> free, taxpayer still pays for this.

Wow, that's a hugely inflammatory statement. The NHS was set up to treat ALL illness at the point of access without prejudice, because its mandate is not to pass moral judgement but to provide medical treatment to all who seek it. It does not apply a sliding scale of morality to the people it treats.

> Yoga practice

> relieved the symptoms, as the pills would do, but

> who would profit from yoga on the long term?

I've been practicing yoga for ~15 years. Yoga could not relieve my symptoms. I've also had various types of therapies, and none have been as effective as medication. However, I do recognize that these things help other people, and I'm all for anything that helps. There's no point to condemning a treatment for other people just because it's not for you.

>

> Medical Professionals were very keen to offer me

> drugs and looked at me like at some idiot, because

> I refused to take those pills. Only the CBT

> therapist said it is my choice to take them or

> not. Otherwise nobody had a basic conscience to

> say a word about side effects. People just acted

> as the salesmen. I made research later and was

> really appalled. How can I be sleepy with 2

> children under three years old? What if my child

> will run on the road and I am slowed down and

> would not be able to stop her on time? Or feel

> dizzy and tumble down the stairs while holding the

> baby in my arms? If anything would happen it would

> be I to blame, why I haven't read the instruction

> B4, what I was thinking about when accepting the

> treatment. I had enough of such situations. So the

> next time I go for the therapist straight away and

> won't even speak with GP about it.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but it sounds like you're now passing judgement on people who do choose to take medication? So you basically think that everyone who chooses sertraline is an irresponsible parent because the medication might make them dizzy or sleepy, etc? I was aware of the possible side effects, and I still chose to take this medication. Sertraline never affected me in such a way that I could not look after my daughter! Obviously I would have stopped taking it if there were real problems!!

I do apologise if I've misunderstood your post. To me your post came across as very judgemental of medication as a valid therapy for PND or depression. If that's your personal experience, fair enough. But to seem to condem this as a valid treatment option altogether comes across as judgemental, because different people have different experiences of depression and recovery.

Not everyone who chooses medication had it forced on them by a drug company, or is an irresponsible parent sucking up valuable tax-payer money.

Again, sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick. That's just how it appears from this end.

Differnt things work differently for different people. Just because something doesn't work for one person, doesn't automatically make it bad for everyone else. xx