The Cherry Tree Pub CLOSED? Drinker Disaster

[Spartacus]

CPR Dave

It does raise a question over this thread on the same day too

https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,2272638,2273166#msg-2273166

[CPR Dave]

Maybe but the EDT, the Bishop, the Palmerston and the Actress were all open as normal.

[KidKruger]

Other pubs being open though doesn?t prove/disprove the driving reason for the landlords who closed that day.

Some people are speculating racism, but I?d be surprised if someone would willingly turn away huge custom on that basis and I wonder whether other considerations were at play.

[Chick]

As I said earlier I was told by a pub manager it was because of "gypsy funeral".

KidKruger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Other pubs being open though doesn?t

> prove/disprove the driving reason for the

> landlords who closed that day.

> Some people are speculating racism, but I?d be

> surprised if someone would willingly turn away

> huge custom on that basis and I wonder whether

> other considerations were at play.

[JohnL]

KidKruger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Other pubs being open though doesn?t

> prove/disprove the driving reason for the

> landlords who closed that day.

> Some people are speculating racism, but I?d be

> surprised if someone would willingly turn away

> huge custom on that basis and I wonder whether

> other considerations were at play.

Google it and loads of pubs across UK and Ireland do it.

I found a thread on Reddit where whole towns in Ireland would shut as soon as some travellers turned up at the first pub (they all phones around).

Obviously there's a perception of something by pub managers and companies.

[taper]

This Tweet from the dead man's niece gives a fuller picture. Suggests the Police and Council encouraged some pubs to close.

[KidKruger]

Still doesn?t resolve my query tho !

Chick Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> As I said earlier I was told by a pub manager it

> was because of "gypsy funeral".

>

>

> KidKruger Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Other pubs being open though doesn?t

> > prove/disprove the driving reason for the

> > landlords who closed that day.

> > Some people are speculating racism, but I?d be

> > surprised if someone would willingly turn away

> > huge custom on that basis and I wonder whether

> > other considerations were at play.

[jazzer]

So sad to have read this tweet from the dead man's niece and what the family encountered, wholly wrong and immoral on all counts. Everyone has the right to a funeral and send off irrespective of background or any other category people wish to use.

[Spartacus]

Interesting question.

If it was a case of landlords exercising their right to close due to either previous incidents or fear of damage and trouble and or the police asking them to close, then what are forumites proposing should happen ?

Or are we all metaphorically muttering into our pints by discussing it on here ?

Ultimately it shouldn't really happen but for reasons we as non publicans or police may not understand or agree with, it does.

[CPR Dave]

That young lady is clearly very bright and very empathetic and a good person. If I ran a pub I would have been proud to host her and her family.

[KidKruger]

Spartacus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Interesting question.

> If it was a case of landlords exercising their

> right to close due to either previous incidents or

> fear of damage and trouble and or the police

> asking them to close, then what are forumites

> proposing should happen ?

>

> Or are we all metaphorically muttering into our

> pints by discussing it on here ?

>

> Ultimately it shouldn't really happen but for

> reasons we as non publicans or police may not

> understand or agree with, it does.

Well, quite.

[jazzer]

Take a look at the film Good Will Hunting, "you can do anything you want, you are bound by nothing".

Not a truer word spoken. A person's background should be NO barrier or obstacle to them trying or doing anything they want, we are born free and freedom is one the most important things in life we have.

It doesn't matter who you are or what your background is, you are a free person and no one should deter you from what you want to do or achieve.

[Brideshead]

Legally speaking a pub is private property so they have a unaliable right over who is allowed on their premises. Rightly or wrongly that might be in the current culture.

The point being why tell unnecessary lies about a ?Gas Leak?? Shows contempt for the public, lack of decency & almost a glee in what they are doing doesn?t it

Wonder if I will go in there again with management like this 😔

[ianr]

>

[CPR Dave]

"they have a unaliable right over who is allowed on their premises."

That's only true to a certain extent, and other businesses have been sued successfully for discriminating against customers on spurious grounds such as racism and homophobia.

If it's really true that the council were phoning round pubs about this that makes it a much more difficult decision because the council control the grant of their licence too.

[smooch]

No I think the Police not the council were visiting the pubs.

Yes agree it seemed a very heavy handed approach, but i suspect many pubs were complying simply to keep the "persons in blue" on their side. If there is any sort of hassle, it helps if you have a good track record.

Reading that young lady's account it does seem rather a shame - and yes a very eloquent argument about what occurred.

edited - the police wear black now I believe.......

[coco99]

Please join me in reporting this incident to GATEHerts at https://gateherts.org.uk/report-racism/ who work with victims of discrimination, hate incidents and crime within Gypsy and Traveller communities, supporting victims and encouraging reporting of hate crime incidents, every report gets followed up with the police and reported to government so they can have a better understanding of the everyday racism faced by the Gypsy, Roma & Traveller communities.

I thank you all for your support.

[KidKruger]

Have you spoken with the respective landlords before raising an accusation of racism ?!

It?s a pretty heavy thing to be accused of.

Could you list your evidence here please ?

I?ve already suggested that those businesses which closed may have feared damage and violence - why else would they turn their backs on ?1000s extra turnover ?! 🤔

[CPR Dave]

feared damage and violence from whom?

[KidKruger]

I?m trying to make sense of why landlords in (what seems like) several pubs chose to close rather than multiply the day(s) income, after financially hard times, at a time when they need the money.

I?m not convinced someone of sound mind would do solely because they don?t like where some people are from or what their background is. Financial suicide isn?t it ?

Therefore I?m postulating why they may have closed. I could be wrong in my previous suggestion but I struggle to see what other reason someone would do that - assuming they?re of sound mind.

And the decision process / reasons for it, would be theirs, not mine.

[Sue]

coco99 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Please join me in reporting this incident to

> GATEHerts at

> https://gateherts.org.uk/report-racism/ who work

> with victims of discrimination, hate incidents and

> crime within Gypsy and Traveller communities,

> supporting victims and encouraging reporting of

> hate crime incidents, every report gets followed

> up with the police and reported to government so

> they can have a better understanding of the

> everyday racism faced by the Gypsy, Roma &

> Traveller communities.

> I thank you all for your support.

I am fully in support of these sentiments, but I agree with KidKruger that this incident should not be reported unless the true reason for closing the pub is known.

There must be some way of finding out. The pub is nowhere near the cemetery, so other pubs must have been approached, if that's actually what happened.

I'm a community shareholder in The Ivy House, which is very near the cemetery, and to the best of my knowledge they neither closed down nor had any trouble of any kind.

[Brideshead]

Just to clarify, I am more concerned about the false reason given on its notices posted up in the windows.

These were plainly false.

Took pictures of these fake signs.

The problem therein:-

+ if the landlord thinks it?s ok to write brazen barefaced lies to customers & public it is more likely he WAS also discriminating against the traveller community

+ the landlord needs to be a ?fit & proper? person to be granted a licence by Southwark council licensing committee in conjunction with the police etc - but writes brazen lies on posters displayed to public?

+ if lies / deception considered ok, what are customers maybe being told/informed about their drinks &/or food?

As explained residents next door saw no gas van, tradesman, or any van or were not issued with any safety warning (suspected gas leaks lead to whole street evacuations)ON THAT THURSDAY EVENING OR FRIDAY MORNING up until these ?scary? signs were taken down.

It?s possible I?m wrong & this nevertheless was the truth? but would be trillion trillion trillion to one coincidence wouldn?t it?

(My own opinion - blah blah blah - personal view - not the view of the EDF - without prejudice - disclaimer) 😉

[ianr]

> It?s possible I?m wrong & this

> nevertheless was the truth? but

> would be trillion trillion trillion

> to one coincidence wouldn?t it?

> (My own opinion - blah blah blah

> - personal view -

> not the view of the EDF - without

> prejudice - disclaimer) 😉

1 chance in 1036 ? No. That's just heedless, self-indulgent and totally unrealistic hyperbole that simply goes to establish your own unreliability. No amount of hedging it with gratuitous qualifications is going to undo that. In its jokiness it's almost a Boris Johnson style of rhetoric.

[Brideshead]

-IanR

Lovin? your work 🥰

(a) I?m not a mathematician. But thanks for quantifing it!

(b) In layman?s speak: ?an extremely highly unlikely coincidence - which - is in effect to all intents & purposes impossible?.

© Boris hasn?t done too badly for himself has he?

(d) Boris doesn?t have the decency unlike me to wink after his pronouncements.

I?ve posted another opinion on one other thread today, don?t forget to find that to rubbish as well 😉

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Brideshead Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> residents next door saw no gas van,

> tradesman, or any van or were not issued with any

> safety warning (suspected gas leaks lead to whole

> street evacuations)ON THAT THURSDAY EVENING OR

> FRIDAY MORNING

I'd lay off this bit - it makes you sound like some kind of loopy case that's been watching the outside of the pub through a telescope while hidden in the chicken shop's wheelie bin.