Extinction Rebellion to camp on Peckham Rye park for 2 weeks

[hpsaucey]

joom Wrote:

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> Please read this!

>

> https://medium.com/extinction-rebellion/the-real-p

> roblem-of-hypocrisy-for-extinction-rebellion-4a685

> 1dcdeb7

Thanks for posting. A good read!

HP

[heartblock]

Great article on medium joon, thank you for posting.

[legalalien]

I?ve read it, and then went to the main UK website. Tbh I hadn?t appreciated quite how much XR were focused on regime change rather than putting political pressure on government and corporates:

It says this on their webpage

?We recognise that we can?t look to government to solve the world?s problems. It tends to concentrate power and wealth in the hands of a very privileged few, and often does not have the interests of the majority of people and the natural world at heart. We understand that we must self-organise to meet our own needs, which in the context of Extinction Rebellion means that we are working to equalise power by disrupting the usual pillars of power that govern our lives. In so doing, our intention is to create access to the resources we need, such as democratic structures that ensure everyone has a voice and an influence, information that comes without the bias of the rich and powerful, decent healthcare, education, social care and housing, clean energy production, and protections in law to prevent ecocide.?

So it?s no to government, but then yes to unspecified other democratic structures and legal protections. I know I lack imagination but I?m really unsure what is envisaged. Dismantling existing governmental structures worldwide and building something new seems a bit ambitious, and I wouldn?t be confident that some alternative wouldn?t result in power being concentrated in a different group of people (Animal Farm?). I understand the the idea of mobilising 3.5% to effect this change relates to research about historically successful non-violent civil disobedience movements, but I wonder whether many of these related to more specific demands e.g. US civil rights movement.

?The change needed is huge and yet achievable. No regime in the 20th century managed to stand against an uprising which had the active participation of up to 3.5% of the population (Erica Chenoweth?s research, see

). In the UK, this would mean mobilising around 2 million people in order to oversee a rapid change in wealth distribution and power structures, preventing a rich elite from perpetuating a self-serving ideology.?

From a quick google I found this article in the Guardian quite interesting.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/21/the-guardian-view-on-extinction-rebellion-numbers-alone-wont-create-change.

Back to the specific topic about trespass/ bylaws and the right to protest, if anyone wants to read some case law these decisions are interesting, one about the sort of protest camp on Clapham Common during lockdown, and the other about the guy protesting against HS2 in a tunnel on private land.

https://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/format.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2021/1962.html&query=(Lambeth)+AND+(grant)

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/DPP-v-Cuciurean-Final-30-March-2022.pdf

The first one gives an idea of the factors the council would have to take into account if it wished to move the camp on. The second raises some interesting legal issues as to the intersection between criminal offences and human rights of peaceful assembly and freedom of expression. I see that yesterday the Attorney General asked the Supreme Court to clarify the relationship between the offence of criminal damage and those rights, using the Bristol statue case as an example.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/attorney-general-seeks-clarification-on-the-law-following-protest-case.

Admin - apologies for the slight lounge-ness of this but I thought some people would be interested in the Lambeth camping case in particular(skip to para 88 to get to the guts of it). The point being that the Council has a human rights exercise to go through in deciding how to respond which may be another factor in their ?turn a blind eye? response.

https://extinctionrebellion.uk/the-truth/about-us/

[heartblock]

Thanks legal - interesting articles. I think it's important to educate oneself and then take a view. Mine agrees with 'rapid change in wealth distribution and power structures, preventing a rich elite from perpetuating a self-serving ideology', but that doesn't mean I'm right.

Maybe that's why XR camping on the Rye for two weeks doesn't bother me. My council tax goes on all sorts of things I don't agree with (LTNs) and others I have no use of... quite happy for it to be used to pay for port-a-loos for two weeks.

[Jenijenjen]

I?m happy for my council tax to pay for these portaloos as well if in fact they are being paid for by the council. I haven?t seen any confirmation this is actually the case, only assumptions. I?m far happier my council tax is used for that purpose than on legal fees to prevent the campsite or my taxes on the police clearing it.

[Bic Basher]

It's cheaper in the long run to install the temporary loos than to get a team of specialist cleaners to clean up human waste left on the common. It'll ensure when they leave, the common will still be safe to use.

I believe when they camped on Blackheath the protesters were respectful of their surroundings and local residents.

[Mabaker]

I visited them yesterday and they gave me a free sunflower plant so that was nice. The man told me that they have a list of rules that they agreed with the Council, and a council official visits them randomly to check.

[Rockets]

So it is sanctioned by the council.......a list of rules...my goodness...if it turns out the portaloos have been provided by the council at tax payers' expense then we really do know the council is utterly out of control.

[Sue]

Rockets Wrote:

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> So it is sanctioned by the council.......a list of

> rules...my goodness...if it turns out the

> portaloos have been provided by the council at tax

> payers' expense then we really do know the council

> is utterly out of control.

I agree with what Jenijenjen said above.

I'm very happy for the portaloos to be paid for from my council tax.

Maybe take a few moments to look at the wider issues here, Rockets - the clue is in the word "extinction".

[Ampersand]

Rockets Wrote:

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> So it is sanctioned by the council.......a list of

> rules...my goodness...if it turns out the

> portaloos have been provided by the council at tax

> payers' expense then we really do know the council

> is utterly out of control.

I?m totally clutching my pearls too darling!

[Sue]

🤣

[rachp]

Rockets Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So it is sanctioned by the council.......a list of

> rules...my goodness...if it turns out the

> portaloos have been provided by the council at tax

> payers' expense then we really do know the council

> is utterly out of control.

This sounds far preferable to what happened over lockdown when our parks were regularly trashed with litter and human excrement, used tampons etc and we still had to fund retrospective clear ups from taxpayers money.

[Jenijenjen]

Anyway, despite Rockets sensationalism and exaggeration, Southwark Council have confirmed they have not provided any facilities or equipment

https://www.southwarknews.co.uk/news/id-like-to-see-them-take-over-the-whole-park-locals-react-to-peckhams-extinction-rebellion-encampment/

[Waseley]

I suggest go down for a chat with them Mr/Mrs Rockets. Challenge your views and theirs. And report back.

[Spartacus]

According to the article "The activists say they will leave the park by Monday 18 April to make way for a traveller?s funeral procession"

Knowing travellers funerals, that's a going to be a spectacular sight to see.

[Rockets]

I loved this bit...

Asked about the controversial roadblocks which have seen ambulances blocked off, activist and nurse practitioner Anna Bunton said their policy was to let ?blue lights? through when possible. She added that pollution causes health problems, which helps justify when ambulances are inadvertently stopped.

.....that's a great justification for blocking ambulances on blue lights.....one day they might return to Terra firma from their low earth orbit....;-)

Do you think Sparrow and Wolf are their real names....;-)

[Waseley]

I repeat Mr/Mrs Rockets, open your mind and go and talk with them rather than just using snippets of news to support your entrenched views. This echoes posts that I and others have made elsewhere on this forum. I look forward to hearing how this goes!

[TheCat]

Genuine question, this isnt something I know much about (see quote from DT below)...why the heck do police not want to pick her up out of the road? Is it just fear from the police if they are 1) being seen to be disrupting right to protest, or 2) being seen to physically handle a woman after recent publicty? Whats the world come to if 'two dozen' police cant (or dont want to) remove one person from lying down in the road....?

"For one period Blackfriars bridge was held by a single 76-year-old woman who lay in the road and refused to move.

About two dozen officers from City of London police surrounded the woman, who said she was determined to be arrested. However, she voluntarily ended her blockade after officers refused to pick her up and threatened to call an ambulance to take her away"

[Nigello]

Because optics matter to them and - more likely - any potential critic with a keypad.

[TheCat]

Yes, optics....I guess not all causes are equal. I imagine if an anti-vax nutter or neo-nazi lay down in the road. He/she would be removed pretty quickly.....

[Rockets]

Threatening to call an ambulance could be a masterstroke by the police. XR are anti-establishment and want to be arrested and want to make it as difficult as possible for the police and court system to process them.

I can't imagine XR want to be a burden on the NHS and I reckon if you get taken to hospital enough times for sitting in a road they could probably section you which would be a gar more effective way of stopping repeat offenders!

Also I can't imagine bragging about going to hospital and being sectioned holds the same cache at the Peckham Rye camp as being arrested...

[Sue]

Why on earth would someone be sectioned for taking part in a protest against the continuing use of fossil fuels?

It isn't the people protesting who are insane 😡

[hpsaucey]

Rockets Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Threatening to call an ambulance could be a

> masterstroke by the police. XR are

> anti-establishment and want to be arrested and

> want to make it as difficult as possible for the

> police and court system to process them.

>

> I can't imagine XR want to be a burden on the NHS

> and I reckon if you get taken to hospital enough

> times for sitting in a road they could probably

> section you which would be a gar more effective

> way of stopping repeat offenders!

>

> Also I can't imagine bragging about going to

> hospital and being sectioned holds the same cache

> at the Peckham Rye camp as being arrested...

Wow lol.

Have you had too much wacky baccy??

HP

[Peckhamnearbe]

Were the XR people there? Went by an hour ago, not a scrap left behind.

[hammerman]

Of course they wouldn't leave anything behind. They're taking it off to their next holiday. One of the main protesters was in the press this week jetting off around the world on regular holidays abroad! How hypocritical.