The UK Government has made calorie labelling mandatory for all restaurants, pubs and cafes with 250

[Spartacus]

The world war 2 diet caused by rationing demonstrated that NewWave. Sadly when it was suggested that fat, sugar and salt were kept to a minimum, the food lobbies put up such a fight that only fat was demonised yet since then there has been a realisation that a combination of the three is where danger lies.

It was amazing how the families then created nutritional meals with very little and without the temptation of two for one offers on cheap fatty, salty and sugary foods.

I do wonder if modern families could do it now or if they would all lamemt the loss of the golden arches, high calorie empty foods or delivery services. 🤔

[NewWave]

Spartacus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The world war 2 diet caused by rationing

> demonstrated that NewWave. Sadly when it was

> suggested that fat, sugar and salt were kept to a

> minimum, the food lobbies put up such a fight that

> only fat was demonised yet since then there has

> been a realisation that a combination of the three

> is where danger lies.

>

> It was amazing how the families then created

> nutritional meals with very little and without the

> temptation of two for one offers on cheap fatty,

> salty and sugary foods.

>

> I do wonder if modern families could do it now or

> if they would all lamemt the loss of the golden

> arches, high calorie empty foods or delivery

> services. 🤔

I think its important to remember that in many modern families both parents HAVE to work.

Or we have many more single parent households than in the 40's/50's/60's.

The reason I make this point is that preparing cheap nutritious meals requires planning and time.

I do understand how for those on lower incomes working full time and coming home to kids needing food its a lot easier (and often cheaper)to either send them down to the chicken shop with a couple of quid to get their supper or grab a freezer meal and stick it in the microwave.

I grew up in the 60's in a very low income household (mainly raised by a single parent)My mum used to feed us on eggs and beans when we had skint weeks, or fried spam- There weren't the fast food takeaways when I was growing up but I'm sure if there were My mum although caring about what she fed me would have resorted to a ?2.99 meal deal as preferable to going hungry.

[Spartacus]

NewWave, I'm curious about what you are arguing for here.

Are you saying that it's okay not to care about children getting obese because parents work or can't cook simple meals ?

Are you saying modern parents are lazy in the kitchen and the chicken shops are their saviours ?

Are you saying aa a nation we shouldn't try to stop the obesity crisis by getting the food industry to produce healthier food ?

I just can't work out what you are arguing for?

For reference, I grew up with both parents working, there were latchkey kids everywhere and yet most parents did prepare quick nutritional meals for their families.

After ww2 there were high numbers of single parents (for obvious reasons) working to make ends meet, struggling with rationing yet still making nutritional meals. It's only since the invention of fast food and ready meals plus cheap empty calories that we stopped cooking and started getting obese ..

[KidKruger]

I don?t buy the ?we?ve no time to cook actual food? angle, especially given that we?ve more time-saving gadgets than ever before !

You can cook a big pot of daal in 45mins, 5mins prep, just chuck it all in and stir occasionally between doing other things. It?ll last all week. You can throw in it whatever you want.

Just one example of an easy home-cooked, time-saving dish.

I suspect preference trumps time limitations, how many hours a day do people with ?no time to cook? sit watching the idiot box ?!

[Nigello]

I agree that it is unfashionable and the opposite of virtue signalling to say it is preferable that adults (and children of a certain age) should be able to make simple meals to save money and to provide good nutrition.

The seventies and eighties saw a lot of change but homemade meals were always there in a household where adults worked full time, even if the variety wasn't wide. Egg and chips (homemade from spuds, not from a packet), beans on toast, potato hash, fry up from Sunday lunch, jacket spuds and salad, Welsh rarebit, hotpot, finnan haddock and poached egg, etc. None took ages to make and none broke the bank.

[teddyboy23]

Nigello I'm coming to yours yum yum 👍

[Earl Aelfheah]

It's easy to criticise other people's eating habits, but in the 70s and 80s, one person in a couple would often be at home, at least some of the time. Hours were generally shorter, and the pace of life was much slower. 'Cognitive load' was significantly lighter for many, pre 'attention technologies', and the plethora of relatively cheap, fast eating options were fewer. So it's not entirely surprising to me that people may not cook 'proper' meals so regularly, if that is indeed the reality.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I do think we'll likely see 'reformulated' menus as a result of the labelling changes. Probably a positive move.

[jazzer]

I don't get this "we don't have time to cook" or let's buy our weeks meals from as an example "Hello Fresh" or "Oakhouse" or "Paisley Box". I don't think there is a more expensive way to buy a week's worth of meals.

I buy bread from the bakers, meat from the butchers, fresh veg, cupboard staples etc. from a supermarket and no I don't always have a great diet, but I try and make do with the weekly shop last and don't do top up shops. Week on week you see the prices increasing, it's already hard and sadly it's going to get harder, especially if as is being said there's a recession around the corner.

I don't know how households afford the likes of meals from Just Eat or Deliveroo, but they are happy to fork out for them, Is it Money Rich and Time poor or Time Rich and Money Poor?

[Spartacus]

Rah x3

That's an interesting point about the cognitive load caused by always being accessible (phone, email, social media...) and the demands from streaming services (back in the day 3 channels was enough for many) which means to avoid the crisis getting worse, we should take time to switch off and reunite with our family and that the manufacturers should look at ways of making their meals quick, nutritional and healthy without loading sugar, salt, fat and invented ingredients (any idea what E124 is?) But we should all look at cooking quick meals that are healthy, cheap and tasty (as much as I don't like to use it as an example but Jamie's 15 minute meals was a good start)

The second issue is Bogoffs ate normally for calorie rich, empty foods and the way to help the public here is to offer Bogoffs on healthier nutritional foods and not things like crisps or fizzy drinks.

After all we don't want to see our young dying prematurely from avoidable obesity related conditions that could be avoided by changing hosw and what the nation buys and eats.

[Castleton]

(any idea what E124 is?)

Ponceau. Colourant, artificial. (banned in the US/Norway)

[Moovart]

I use to think that obesity was about bad choices of the individual but it's now much clearer to me that obesity is a disorder of modern capitalis.

It drives us to consume more and consume it more quickly so that we can maintain productivity. It then gets us to sign up to a billion (or maybe trillion) dollar diet industry driven by a patriarchial attitude that thinness is the one thing we need to achieve in order to be happy.

Women and, increasingly men, waste years of their lives under the control of these very successful industries. As tax payers we then pay to treat the health consequences of this trap we've fallen in to while industry carries on feeding us fat then making us feel bad and pay to diet.

The modern relationship with food is increasingly disordered and the industry is so powerful I doubt there is much the individual can do about it unless they truly understand the complexities of what is driving this modern eating disorder.

[KidKruger]

There's something in that but....

Most of us can sit in a room by ourselves and decide fairly accurately what is healthy / unhealthy food and whether to eat it or not.

Our behaviour is influenced by external factors obviously, but the bottom line is our responsibility to inform and feed ourselves sensibly - why would anyone rely on the Govt for anything to do with this ?

We all also know very well the consequences of not doing so.

I don't think there's (yet) a need for a "but God (Govt, media, whatever..) made me do it" moment.

[Spartacus]

Todays telegraph has an article (behind the paywall) talking about how our diets during the coronation were better for us then now.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/eating-habits-need-bring-back-1950s

I've turned it into a PFF for those who aren't subscribers.

There's also a good book called "Fat: An Appreciation of a Misunderstood Ingredient, with Recipes" by Jennifer McLagan which talks about how Fats were demonised because the salt and sugar lobbies fought their corner when it was recommended (based on the 50s diet) that we ate using moderate amounts of Fat, sugar and salt.in our diets.

Quite scary to think that food industries have apparently made us obese and with a change back to eating around a table, switching television off and home cooking we could reverse the trend

Are you up for the challenge?

[Moovart]

Interesting podcast about the effect of ultra processed food on our bodies and how the additives included can alter our metabolisms.

It discusses parallels between the food industry and the tobacco industry.

Important stuff in understanding obesity as a medical condition and really important for parents in understanding the effect of processed foods on children.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0c98s7r

[ianr]

If you just want access to mp3 files to download, and online episode summaries, the programme website https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0017tcz/episodes/downloads may be more convenient than the BBC Sounds one.

[Spartacus]

Failure to act to save our children (and us) from obesity

BBC News - Salt and sugar tax for England to be ruled out

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61767847