The Grove Tavern

[Balders]

I have just been told by someone with reliable council and Dulwich Estates contacts that The Grove Tavern has an application pending for change of use to "Retail and Residential". That would seem to indicate a supermarket and given that Tesco build houses they would be the most likely of the ususal suspects.

With very few residential properties around it they would not have had to inform many people so thios one seems to be getting under the radar.

How do people feel about it?

[StraferJack]

I'd hate to see it not become a pub - good building, a garden, near the woods, a history etc etc

But it hasn't been a viable pub for many many years has it?

It has a big old footprint, so would provide a fair bit of (no doubt fugly) housing

In this instance I can see the benefit of changing the usage

[Earl Aelfheah]

What a surprise.....

It's perfectly viable at the right price. If change of use was out of the question then the market would find the price at which it becomes viable.

Do we want a total loss of amenity in the area because almost any site is more profitable when carved up for flats at this particular moment in time?

Lets face it, the owners haven't tried very hard to make it work. They took it over, there was a fire, following which they allowed it to stay vacant for an extended period and now they've put in for change of use.

How about they fix it up and try running it as a pub for a bit?

[Siduhe]

There's no application currently live on the planning portal, but one of the College councillors (I think) mentioned they had heard the same plan to turn it into part retail, part residential. It's a big site and a small mixed retail, social housing development could work well, since the view appears to be the Harvester building (original use) is beyond commercial repair post the fire.

[StraferJack]

When would you last say it was a viable pub rahrahrah?

The market is finding it's level by determining the best use of the property (after years of none of the usual players in the pub/restaurant market showing any interest) .

I'm not saying the market and I want the same outcome but if you are going to use the market as an arbitrer..

[DJKillaQueen]

Change of use is one thing, but I do wish people would stop assuming change of always has a supermarket chain behind it - especially as RESIDENTIAL means no supermarket could open a store there.

[Earl Aelfheah]

It has only been empty since the fire. Before that it has been an operational business for as long as I can remember. It was only fairly recently sold to the present owner, who presumably considered it a viable going concern? By allowing change of use when the purchasers haven't even attempted to run it for the purpose that it was ostensibly purchased for, you give out a bad message.

Taken to the extreme, you end up with amenity levels that are effectively a snapshot of an area at it?s lowest level of retail demand. You strip out amenity because ?no one wants to see empty shops? during times when demand is low (or residential demand is very high). Well actually you see empty shops because landlords refuse to be realistic about the true value of their units within a retail market, or because the possibility of conversion to flats (which are more profitable) is an incentive for dereliction. Clearly it will be more profitably as flats, than a restaurant / pub. So you allow a leaking of more and more units into the residential market to the detriment of a local area.

If there was a much higher bar for minimum amenity levels then the market would find the proper price and viability wouldn't be such an issue. If all those shop-to-flat conversions on North cross road / upland road had been prevented you would have considerably cheaper retail rents in the area and a much more vital commercial environment.

[StraferJack]

I understand it was a very popular pub back in the day but I?ve been going to that place in different incarnations for 12 years

And every one of those incarnations had ?dead man walking? written all over it. Mitchel & Butlers tried upmarket and downmarket before selling it on. Latest owners were, from a customer standpoint, woeful. And then it burnt out.

I?m saying it wasn?t an amenity many people cared for. Big money owners came and went. Small money owners came and went. Only people who didn?t were customers

All this at a time when someone like Capital pubs were buying up any square foot in London which could be used to sell beer and food

The market wasn?t interested in it

At this point I?m not too fussed what it becomes ? it?s on the corner of a stupidly busy junction already. It?s hard to imagine it being any worse, regardless of use

[alice]

It's day is done - bring on the houses - there's a shortage isnt there?

[steveo]

The newish flats already there were built on part of what wss once pub garden.

They chose to model the flats on the blocks next to the site - shitty council flats, so we can assuredly look forward to an imagination free development.

Unless we demand they build one of these!

http://alleganchamber.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/regenttheatre.jpg

[lane lover]

I heard from a good source it is to be a Waitrose ...

[Balders]

-- moved topic --

[DulwichFox]

Same Old Story... Everywhere

Pub Fire.. Insurance claim .. Redevelop to flate or offices..

Tigers Head Catford.. Pub Fire.. Insurance claim ?.. Redevelop to flate or offices..

The Green Man Pub Catford.. Pub Fire.. Insurance claim ?.. Redevelop to flate or offices..

The Baring Arms. Grove Park.. Pub Fire.. Insurance claim ?.. Redevelop to flate or offices..

Grove Tavern Dulwich.. Pub Fire.. Insurance claim ?.. Redevelop to flate or offices..

Maismore Arms Peckham.. Pub Fire.. Insurance claim ?.. Redevelop to flate or offices..

Just Ones I know of...

DulwichFox

[Lordlordship]

I've heard Freshco are looking to take over the Rovers Return site

[XxNikkixX]

I think it would make a great Toby carvary we certainly don't have one local and I think it would make great business would be very popular

[DJKillaQueen]

That's very interesting Fox.

I used to go there a long time ago for summer carvery's and sit in the garden at the back etc and it was good then. It was though one of the few places on offer too and maybe just over time, the competition has just got better.

[JohnL]

The catford bridge tavern survived - just

[mikeb]

Fox, are these all M&B pubs?

[Louisa]

Great opportunity to convert into a decent foody venue that end of the lane missed. This pub isn't just a pub, it's an integral part of the cultural fabric and history of Dulwich. To lose it would bring to an end over 300 years of history on that site. Many happy family memories of this place, long before the Harvester got their hands on it. Please someone out there buy it and don't let us lose it. Genuinely brings a tear to the eye to think of us losing a great institution such as this.

Louisa.

[moondustt]

XxNikkixX Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think it would make a great Toby carvary we

> certainly don't have one local and I think it

> would make great business would be very popular

I completely agree, there are no local carveries and tobys comes highly reccomended!

[alice]

2 for ?10 roast dinners

[Earl Aelfheah]

Is there actually a planning application in for this site? I couldn't find it on the Southwark online planning register.

[Louisa]

According to their website it's only closed for a refurbishment. http://www.thegrovetaverndulwich.co.uk/find-us/

Slightly confusing.

Louisa.

[Siduhe]

It was closed for a refurbishment, but pretty sure the fire started at one of the opening parties shortly after it reopened. Someone in another thread just suggested the fire was a "fit up" job to allow for redevelopment. It didn't look anything like that on the day - there was a full on barbecue/party behind the building which set fire to the low roof at the back from memory.

[Earl Aelfheah]

So does that mean that there is no planning application against it? What's happening then?