Enforced Water Meters

[XDoc]

now another big leak junction of Woodwarde/Beauval.only three days.

Has been reported...

[Asset]

My water bills halved when I had a meter put in (3 bed house, 4 people, garden) I have a dishwasher and a washing machine. I pay ?30 per month for water now, pre-meter they wanted over ?60 per month. I've had the meter for several years and the monthly payments have never changed.

[George Orwell]

Yes, I too will be pilfering water from my workplace. I'll take one litre of water a day and save 0.239p every time I do it. Do it every day for 5 days and you've saved just over 1p per week :-)

[Nigello]

My monthly charge has gone down by two quid - using waste water to water the garden, not dishwashing in the sink and only in the dishwasher when full, etc. has brought it right down.

[Guest]

Has anybody ever made a claim a petition anything against this company behaviours? or an enquiry to the regulator on the right they have to bill customers for one year in advance payment and state that if you pay monthly or every 3 or 6 months IN ADVANCE you are in any case "late" paying your bill?

not only they overcharge and treat customers like idiots, not only they pass your data to credit ratings agencies if you are "late" on a payment according to their bizarre calendar, even when you have right to discounted tariffs, they also pass your data to social media and debt recovery companies after you have completely cleared your balance so that customer representatives of not clearly identified third parties, holding your account statement that is three months older, never aligned to the correct current record, start pest you with phone calls from call centres to remind your payments are late... Just disturbing you and make you calling back or click compulsively on their website increases their "engagements" and there is always a change they get you paying double or triple payments - because there is always the possibility you do not go to check the record and as soon as you receive the call you go and pay again via credit or debit card...

I do hope water companies will be abolished sooner of later but in the meantime something should be done to challenge the total absence of corporate social responsibility of this company.

[jazzer]

Yes, Thames Water can be a difficult beast to engage with. I had issues with them, after much "discussion" shall we say they saw sense and for the last 6 month bill after the "compensation" they paid me for their incompetence to provide a service I still ended up in credit.

You need to speak to the right people and then miraculously things suddenly happen and you go from being an extremely dissatisfied customer to a moderately contented customer.

Do you have evidence that they have passed your details to third parties, if yes I'd be speaking with OfWAT and The Information Commissioners Office.

Easy to say but try paying on time and don't get into an aggressive argument with them. Be prepared to play the long game, be nice to them and its amazing how helpful they can actually be.

[Guest]

Jazzer I admire your good spirit and sense of humour, and how enviable is that you have plenty of time for things such "play the long game with Thames Water" and "be nice with them to see how helpful they can actually be"! Since you have even obtained compensation and ended up in credit it looks like you have all it takes to provide evidence for a Panorama investigation on the Taliban style of management of this company or to start a class action with a charity or the like... that may be even a longer, more satisfactory game to play with them!

As far I am concerned, I pay what I have to pay and that's it. I do not accept my phone number and records to be abused by them in the way I mentioned.

I believe they should be prevented from billing people annually in advance - this could be a fair thing to ask for in this period, while another "affordability scheme" as I have just read in the media can only lead to more foot dragging and exploitation of low income and vulnerable clients - see https://www.ccwater.org.uk/blog/2022/05/12/cost-of-living-struggles-strengthen-case-for-new-water-affordability-scheme/

[jazzer]

Look I agree totally with you about only paying what you owe, that's what I do, but seriously you have to remember that a lot of their staff are nothing less than a bunch of clowns, that can be extremely frustrating to deal with. Hence being polite to them and playing the long game. However sarcasm is the lowest form and wit and I don't appreciate it either, so I'll offer you some constructive advise;

i) If as you say they have abused your personal data, (phone number and records) then as I said, if you have the solid proof which I hope you can evidence, then there are causes of redress to use against them that I have already mentioned.

ii) Have you raised a formal complaint with Thames Water about what you are accusing them of? If you email [email protected] with all the details and evidence to support your case that will commence an investigation. That is the first step I'd recommend that you take. You'll get a complaints reference number and an assigned complaints handler (these are not not general complaints staff but several layers higher. I hope that is useful.

[Guest]

I was about to post an update about Thames Water accounting, billing and customer services but now I see that from some reasons (I guess the recent change of platform and the lost June data backup) my former message in reply to Jazzer in this thread is not available anymore.

However, I have a version of some notes I had saved locally dated 25 June - possibly not identical to what I posted but containing the substance of what I wanted to share in June and I can repost it here (very often I write messages offline before posting them, old fashioned habit from the days in which remote servers did not save automatically what was being written and any connection bump might have caused to lose everything):

------

Sorry for the late reply. I was busy with other matters.

Unfortunately there is no way for private individuals to contrast or fight back directly such dysfunctional policies that work as scams and are widely adopted by private companies (mainly utility bills and their subcontractors) and also local authorities.

The scheme, as far as I can say, works in this way:

1) target individual (T) receives a bill or instalment plan for the provision of a service (P)

2) T pays P according to plan

3) P does not record the payment in time

4) P transfers T data to a third party that can be a debt collector agency or a charity providing solicitors services (3rd)

5) 3rd writes T to pay and share data with credit ratings agencies and others making a business of its own, all created around artificial, wrong or mismanaged data of individuals

6) P records the payment was made correctly or other circumstances occurred such as settlements, compensations etc etc without informing anybody under GDPR rules

7) 3rd keeps on writing T reminders to pay

8) Credit report of T are compromised

9) 3rd goes out of business or P changes 3rd partner

10) Credit report of T remain compromised.

Therefore you understand there is absolutely no point in using the complaints procedure.

Here the very point is to understand how to prevent and avoid cybercrime and / or scams to be fed or at least facilitated in the first place because of all sorts of reasons, from deliberate theft of personal data to trivial behaviours of employees.

Years ago I read a book from a french author explaining that Camorra and other mafias flourish within very modern, highly technical, urban data management workflows.

I believe this is the case to be aware of: how to recognise the signs and promptly investigate them? for sure, not asking customers to use the complaint procedure that is, in fact, used a Trojan Horse!

------

Now here is the update:

- I was eventually able to registered an account on the website around the 20th of July using a new computer. Banging for one year on this point eventually worked! because now the system recognised my email address linked to my account correctly so that I could see and download the updated bill and set up a payment plan.

- I chose the option of a monthly payment plan for the residual amount I have to pay for the current year bill that is around 100£ (all advanced payments as they require). There was no option to pay via bank in the screen I was given (very odd, because I do pay via bank!) and I had to choose to pay via a special "TW payment card" that had to be sent in the post (otherwise the procedure would not go ahead).

- So, I chose to have such payment card so I could go ahead and say I want to pay monthly by the 15th of each month.

- I paid the money of the first instalment of the payment plan due by the 15th August via bank transfer on the 26th July and set up standing orders with payments to be sent according to the payment plan monthly deadlines.

- One week later the payment card arrived in the post and I have received reminders that I owe the payment of the August instalment soon, while the overall amount of money I owe for the current bill has been reduced.

- I logged into my account again to discover the payment plan was changed showing I still had to pay the August instalment.

In conclusion, it seems the system perversely and pre-emptively treated my residual bill as it was just debt and not a bill requiring advance payments for the current year. How on earth can a decent organisation treat a current bill as debt?

I contacted the customer service but there was no way to get a reply after 20 minutes waiting time.

If I do not pay the instalment that I have already paid by the 15 August Thames Water will continue to report me to credit ratings agencies as a debtor because for their system, or algorithm or policy or harassing culture?!?, I will have failed to make a payment previously agreed!

In conclusion. Of course I will pay the instalment on time. I do not want, once again, complaining. I just want to say that this type of utility company, with this type of culture, should not exist in my opinion. I cannot justify that the people very skilled in analytics, with PhD in maths and statistics and project management I know they employ, and first class IT systems! at their fingertips, are led to produce such level of profound dysfunctional and damaging annoyances for their customers - not to say of major problems they cause to the environment reported every other day in mainstream media.

Best of luck.

[firth]

Water is free in Scotland, just saying.

[rjsmall]

Water is free in Scotland, just saying.

 

That no longer appears to be the case https://www.gov.scot/policies/water/water-charges-and-exemptions/ and https://scotland.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/paying_for_a_home/other_housing_costs/water_charges

I don't have a problem with the principle of people paying for the resources they use especially when we are getting to a stage where we need to be more aware of our personal usage.

[redpost]

Electricity companies are likely to change the rate charged depending on the time of day using the smart meter as the tool to do this.

Is this what water companies are planning ?

 

If a way was found to store electricity as easily/economically as gas or water, then this would be the biggest advance for humanity ever.

There is absolutely zero need for time based charging of gas/electricity.

[rollflick]

Smart meters help reduce leakage as they enable water companies to identify leaks faster - they can see how much water is flowing into a neighbourhood and how much is being consumed. They can also make you aware of leaks in your home faster.

Only have an old school meter, hope it will be upgraded soon.

Honestly the idea that those who are economical with water should subsidise those who leave taps running, water large lawns etc belongs to a different era. All the more so with rainfall predicted to decrease in summer as the climate continues to warm.

[Spartacus]

There was a quick mention (blink and it was gone) article yesterday about potential price discounts for avoiding peak use.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62626908.amp

If implemented It's a sugar coated pill to swallow as it really means that peak usage will be charged at a higher rate.

Who decides when peak usage is? Currently its muted as 5pm till 8pm (when everyone has returned from work, cooking their supper and unwinding with a soap or similar)

Are they now looking at controlling when we eat our evening meal and if everyone avoids peak times above then will peak time be extended ?

Peak billing has been around for years for business (retail contract billing takes a measurement every 30 minutes) but for domestic use it has all sorts of issues including a record of when you appear to be in or out by your energy usage, all good unless the information is hacked then it gives criminals access to your daily routine.

Equally if prices are higher during the day to encourage us to free electricity up for business use, what about housebound, home workers or school holidays where daytime usage may not be avoidable ?

Theses schemes aren't for the benefit of the consumer , don't let them sleep walk you into higher charges for washing your smalls

When I clap my hands 👏, WAKE UP before its too late 😅