Ukraine situation

[Waseley]

Just cancel the League Cup final. You could say it is due to Abramovich to make a statement, but it is a pointless competition. You could put on a show at Wembley instead, something relevant to supporting an independent Ukraine

[Waseley]

You are probably not aware that Germany was devastated in the 1940s following a war started by their fascist dictator. They also carried out genocide against people they didn't like including 10s of millions of Russians. Not surprisingly Germany's post war foreign policy has been very much about peace and demilitarisation.

Suggest you cut out the nationalist nonsense and look instead about what the UK is doing both to welcome refugees and appropriate Russian assets.

[teddyboy23]

P3girl the Georgian restaurant on lordship lane as a Ukrainian flag in the window plus their own

[JohnL]

1980s DEFCON stuff - if you are young and haven't been here before this must be literally terrifying.

[JohnL]

Waseley Wrote:

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> You are probably not aware that Germany was

> devastated in the 1940s following a war started by

> their fascist dictator. They also carried out

> genocide against people they didn't like including

> 10s of millions of Russians. Not surprisingly

> Germany's post war foreign policy has been very

> much about peace and demilitarisation.

>

> Suggest you cut out the nationalist nonsense and

> look instead about what the UK is doing both to

> welcome refugees and appropriate Russian assets.

I think maybe it was the announcement by Germany of 100 Billion on defence that maybe pushed Putin over the top.

[diable rouge]

It's an 'alert', not a threat to use them, it's what you would expect from a bully, ''I've got nukes'' etc.

This shows that the economic sanctions will work.

Better news is that Ukraine and Russia have agreed to hold talks on the Belarussian border...

[JohnL]

diable rouge Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It's an 'alert', not a threat to use them, it's

> what you would expect from a bully, ''I've got

> nukes'' etc.

>

> This shows that the economic sanctions will work.

>

>

> Better news is that Ukraine and Russia have agreed

> to hold talks on the Belarussian border...

Its still scary even though I we had alert changes all the time in the 1980s.

Putin can't win this in the long term - just hope he's sane.

[Sephiroth]

Ukrainian calls to join the EU

Hopefully EU respond in kind

Where does that leave the ?I support Ukrainian but don?t like EU and think the invasions is because of NATO expansion ? crowd?

[Sephiroth]

That is some weird yet cliched takes.

[Sephiroth]

You are the one with the big claims.

How about you back them up?

As a starter. With countries all around Europe, including Ireland, saying ?feck visas. Just come here. We will look after you? how is the U.K. response of ?apply for seasonal farm work? in any way world-leading?

[wordsworth]

P3girl Wrote:

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> OK, would you like to elucidate. Enlighten us with

> a reasoned and detailed response.

>

> Sephiroth Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > That is some weird yet cliched takes.

...bated breath n all

[Waseley]

Thanks for the history lesson but still not sure why you need to laud it over Germany. You've also ignored the UK making it easy for criminals and despots. Not that I am saying one country or another is better or worse. Just think it does not help the discussion having a go at an ally.

As for dependence on Russian oil you can argue that the West should have long since weaned itself off fossil fuel. Germany like the UK foolishly turned their backs on nuclear in the 90s. What would the UK be doing if we hadn't had the cushion of North Sea reserves. I was tempted to talk about the geopolitical mess we'd made in Palestine and India (partition) but best leave it there

If you are harking back to 1939 then the failure to go in early with the French was one of the biggest mistakes. Should we be sending in troops now?

Anyway he is a dangerous nutter, with some complexes. History will tell whether the East could or should have managed him better

[Sephiroth]

Spidey senses agogo

[Sephiroth]

Days of condemnation from the world and this is the best Johnson comes up with tonight

?Come. Well. If you have a close family member. Otherwise, bag out of luck I guess???

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/feb/27/uk-expected-ease-visa-restrictions-ukrainians-fleeing-war?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[TheCat]

P3girl Wrote:

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> Another contributor got you responses got it spot

> on a few months ago when he/she said......

>

> "Sephiroth constantly twisting the focus of the

> discussion with general 'whataboutery" to avoid

> ever having to make any concessions on anything.

> That's a fact too.

>

> Plus ca change!

>

> Let's hear it Seph - a detailed and considered

> response.

>

Good luck with that.

Great quote though:)

[Sephiroth]

is this meant to be a coherent question?

What does it have to do with anything I've said?

Are you suggesting somehow that, what, I'm pro-Putin invading Ukraine?

Or are you saying that what Putin is doing is somehow justifiable?

And if your question is somehow potentially interpretable as either/both maybe clarify a little?

[Waseley]

Prime Minister. Just say "yes" to Ukrainian refugees. And Syrian. And Afghan etc etc.

Don't use long sentences. Three letters are perfect. Think of Zammo, say yes just say yes

[malumbu]

Interesting view about Germany and defence spending. We are where we are but why on earth wasn't the early 90s a chance to look at disbanding NATO rather than expand it. Russia had already started provocation with the Baltic states a few years ago who then appeared very much in the firing line.

Another question is could Russia have ever been accepted in a European alliance for example as an associate member of the EU? Or too much bad blood with the former communist states?

[JohnL]

Listen to CNN to find out what has been going between EU and Russia for a while.

For instance all EU countries are allowing any Ukrainian refugee to stay for whatever reason without immediate family being needed.

Germany and France have been working together for some time now it's called the Normandy Format

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normandy_Format#:~:text=The%20Normandy%20Format%20talks%20(French,as%20the%20Normandy%20contact%20group.

UK news tends to filter it out - which ironically is exactly what Russia does - I pick up international news only from CNN these days - although I like listening to Kay Burley and Beth Rigby on Sky.

Oh and you couldn't get more anti-Russia than me - when it comes to nuclear threats like JFK in 1962 I say "bring it on" and Russia ran away in 1962 and they will again. you have to stand up to them.

If it wasn't for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Hand and I reckon Putin has modified it to personally need him I'd say there was an argument to send someone to get him personally. "Upon receiving information about a missile launch, the supreme commander sets the system active, which, if not detecting a signal to stop the combat algorithm, automatically launches the commanding missile." - so Putin himself stops it ?? Imagine setting in train a doomsday device that only yourself can stop.

[JohnL]

Sorry for being morbid and pessimistic today.

I watched the goings on in St Petersburg yesterday and the snatch squads were horrific - but we ourselves are restricting the right to protest so I sometimes see that as our future.

We are indoctrinated not to the same extent but we are it's why I watch CNN so much and it is a completely different take from BBC/Sky as it is international centric not UK centric.

[Sephiroth]

I do wonder if Germany displayed even the slightest sign of beefing up their military might at any point in the last few decades, just how the UK, let by it's press, would have reacted

Would the reaction have been - "fair play - about time" or would it have been "Krauts creating EU army - remember 1945!"

[JohnL]

Whilst watching a bit of Sky News just now someone just said the Soviet President Khrushchev was responsible to the politburo and the Central Committee - Putin is responsible to no-one.

[JohnL]

Come on Daubney - you cannot believe that

[diable rouge]

Sephiroth Wrote:

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> Spidey senses agogo

The BatPhone has been flashing all weekend :)

*Checks Admin is still on speed dial...*

[JohnL]

An example of why I don't really like UK news (Sky News headline this time) "The Russian Rouble falls to an all time low as Britain sanctions Russian central bank"

Both parts of the statement are true BUT surely anyone can see one is not a direct result of the other. CNN would explain what all countries were doing in concert as USA is big enough not to need building up.

it's just I like truth - and when I was younger the UK was a bit like the USA in that we were big enough not to have to blow our own trumpet - we sort of talked in the third person.