BNP ad in Ham & High

[Ted Max]

I stand with KK on this one

+K

[LizzygotDizzy]

Erm...only slightly, I am sorry I don't like racist people very much KK I don't like racists pure and simple, and to me thats what the erm...British National Party are all about, white supremacy, so stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

[LizzygotDizzy]

Ted Max Wrote:

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> I stand with KK on this one

>

> +K

Ha, i was going to mention that and make a joke of it, but thought I'd pissed off too many people already lol!

[LizzygotDizzy]

KalamityKel Wrote:

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> Quite clearly some ppl have issues that are deeper

> than this discussion... sorry to have got you

> riled. Generally I just dont like personal

> attacks on ppl as has happened here.

>

> *leaving thread now*

You don't like personal attacks on people for genuine reasons but you are ok supporting a political party for hating members of society for no other reason than simply the colour of their skin and ethnicity? mmmmmm! Oh, I'm sorry, have I offended you again?

[KalamityKel]

Again Lizzy ur on a different tangent I have never suggested my support for or against such an organisation.

[Maximay]

Put a sock in it Lizzy! I will support whoever the hell I wish to

[LizzygotDizzy]

Well if that isn't showing support for a particular party (bit of backtracking going on there I fear) what is? @ KK

And Max, what is it dear? having a bad day are we? Got bored of bullying other members on the forum did you?

[annaj]

Kel, you didn't actually say you supported them no, but with questions like "have you read their manifesto" you did kind of imply your support.

I agree that Lizzy's post have been a bit heated and personal, but as keef said it's an emotive subject and many people, myself included, find the BNPs policies offensive and enraging.

Maximay, since you have publicly declared your support, I hope you won't mind me calmly asking how you can describe the mission statement quoted by lozzyloz as anything other than racist and separatist?

[KalamityKel]

Annaj my question of the manifesto was simply just to ask whether, for those who are strongly against the BNP, actually can speak based on fact other than hearsay. (no no don't pull me up on that it really was just a q!) Sorry if I had implied otherwise.

[Keef]

Come on everyone, I think the KK +K thing is out of order (although I did laugh). Kel was trying to stop personal arguements, whether you agree with her doing that or not, she has said nothing to suggest that she's a BNP supporter, and certainly not a f**king Klan member for christ's sake.

[LizzygotDizzy]

And its all gone quiet over there....... actually made a mistake, how can I call Max a closet racist, at least he has the balls to actually say he supports a party that is fundamentally racist! unlike others!

[Brendan]

lozzyloz Wrote:

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> I'm sorry, but any political party that has the

> following at the heart of their Mission Statement

> has to be seriously suspect:

>

> "The British National Party exists to secure a

> future for the indigenous peoples of these islands

> in the North Atlantic which have been our homeland

> for millennia. We use the term indigenous to

> describe the people whose ancestors were the

> earliest settlers here after the last great Ice

> Age and which have been complemented by the

> historic migrations from mainland Europe. The

> migrations of the Celts, Anglo-Saxons, Danes,

> Norse and closely related kindred peoples have

> been, over the past few thousands years,

> instrumental in defining the character of our

> family of nations."

This is the kind of twaddle that makes me support freedom of speech as it goes to show that it just gives an open gallows for idiots to hang themselves on.

Now I?m not British but reading a statement like this as an outsider the first thought that springs to mind is: How can a party define British as being the indigenous white population of these islands? (I?m? not sure where they put the Irish in this whole thing) The international identity of Britain for at least the last 400 years has been one of an empire ruling over many different populations of people who were considered subject to the empire and therefore ?British?

I can?t see how in any way Britishness can be reserved for the historically indigenous populations of these islands. Not considering the historical precedent.

[Keef]

LizzygotDizzy Wrote:

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> And its all gone quiet over there....... actually

> made a mistake, how can I call Max a closet

> racist, at least he has the balls to actually say

> he supports a party that is fundamentally racist!

> unlike others!

Come on now Lizzy, you seem to be trying to get a rise out of someone here, and it's not really fair. You are making pretty serious, and very thinnly veiled, accusations here.

[lozzyloz]

It's everybody's right to be rascist or not. I just prefer not to be associated with that type of person.

Though I'm curious to understand why they have formed these views. If it is based on a rational thought process then I think perhaps I can help them to rationally see things in a different light. Unfortunately my experience has been that it's actually based on a negative incident involving somebody from a different racial background or simply out of ignorance and fear spread by the likes of the BNP. If all the hateful energy produced in areas like D&B by the BNP could be used instead to promote understanding of the different cultures and a tolerance and respect for each then surely that would be a better service for this country rather than ripping it apart with hate?

[LizzygotDizzy]

Ok ok, point taken, apologies, just getting slightly overheated on this one!

[snorky]

The BNP are wankers, no matter how they dress up their manifesto - but its too easy ( and some might say cheap ) to hurl the unoriginal "racist" tag at them - this only cements their voter base and make them an interesting proposition for the disaffected white underclass.

get them into the open and get them in public to argue their point

[Keef]

Exactly, give them the rope....

[annaj]

KalamityKel Wrote:

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> Annaj my question of the manifesto was simply just

> to ask whether, for those who are strongly against

> the BNP, actually can speak based on fact other

> than hearsay. (no no don't pull me up on that it

> really was just a q!) Sorry if I had implied

> otherwise.

Fair enough Kel, it's not unreasonable to ask people to justify their arguments with evidence. I certainly think that informed posts, like those from lozzyloz, jeremy and DC, are much more constructive and useful in exposing the BNP for what they really are and enlightening people than Lizzy's more emotional contributions*.

So, in that sense at least we agree.

Maximay, I would still be interested to hear you justification for supporting the BNPs mission statement.

*Cross posted with Lizzy's apology - sorry!

[david_carnell]

As would I.....

[MelbourneGr]

It's important to note that the BNP disguise things in a very clever way. When reading some of their points, I actually found myself agreeing and thinking 'yes, that sounds about right and fair - if I was white'.

I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion, however daft it is. The two key things are:

1) How you react to something, whether said or laid out in a manifesto

2) How you help the person(s) who believe/support the views

[david_carnell]

MelbourneGr Wrote:

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> It's important to note that the BNP disguise

> things in a very clever way. When reading some of

> their points, I actually found myself agreeing and

> thinking 'yes, that sounds about right and fair -

> if I was white'.

Could you give examples? I don't want to demonise you in any way merely seek to understand what they're saying that appeals.

[Maximay]

Actually think I'll do a KalamityKel backtrack on this one, here goes:-

I said there was nothing wrong with the BNP, although I don't remember actually saying I supported them, I said I would support whoever the hell I wished, I didn't actually say it was the BNP, there, is that better?

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

I know what Melbourne Grove means (I think). When I listened to the UKIP mayoral candidate on the radio a few weeks ago (before they pulled out obviously) I found myself nodding along - it all sounded so rational and articulate. Let's not forget, some of the best orators have been the biggest bastards.

[david_carnell]

Maximay Wrote:

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> Actually think I'll do a KalamityKel backtrack on

> this one, here goes:-

>

> I said there was nothing wrong with the BNP,

> although I don't remember actually saying I

> supported them, I said I would support whoever the

> hell I wished, I didn't actually say it was the

> BNP, there, is that better?

Well, I suppose it elucidates your point a little more. Would you care to elaborate on why you think there is "nothing wrong" with the BNP? Do you mean you think they are a legitimate political party and should be given as much oxygen as the next lot OR are you saying that you think there is nothing wrong with their principles/policies which you see as eminently sensible? Or both?

[annaj]

OK, I stand corrected. You didn't say you supported the BNP, you said you could support whoever you liked, which I agree with.

However, you did say there is nothing wrong with the BNP. Do you really believe there's nothing wrong with the mission statement quoted?

Like DC, I'm not trying to demonise you or have a personal argument, I simply don't see how the policy quoted can be viewed as anything other than sinister and offensive.