Sexism in the workplace

[yeknomyeknom]

Looking for some opinions or advice for a friend.

My friend is a woman(office manager)in a predominantly male office. She reports directly in to the CEO. The firm is successful but not large so there is no HR etc. In a regular meeting with her and the CEO yesterday, she was putting her point across and being doubted. She said ?perhaps I should get a man to say it to you and then you would listen?. She said this, because this seemed to be the case previously and she was feeling brave. She was trying to stick up for herself for once but didn?t consider the repercussions. The CEO asked if she was accusing him of being sexist and for another example if that was the case. She pointed out a recent recruitment drive where he asked her not to show him anymore women?s cvs. He said she didn?t know the full picture. The meeting ended and he has been very brusque with her since. She has been told today that they will be speaking to her about yesterday in due course.

She is worried. I don?t see there is anything she can do but hope her job is safe.

Obviously if things progress there is citizens advice etc, hopefully it won?t come to this. It isn?t an option for her to leave this company for another job as she works in a limited market.

What would you do?

[SpringTime]

Not to show him any more women's CVs? That definitely takes the biscuit. Does she have anything in writing to that effect?

[JohnL]

Assume the explanation is due to her from him not the reverse.

But with adult talk.

[j.a.]

Your friend needs to stand her ground very firmly.

I obviously only know one side of the story to go on, but from what you have described JohnL is correct. The owners need to explain themselves to her; she owes them no explanation.

If she feels she is treated unfairly she should seek legal advice.

The fact that there is no HR department does not absolve them from legal responsibility.

There is simply no place for this in modern society. As I say, I only know one side of the argument and - to be fair - it?s entirely possible that the CEO?s are able to resolve this. However, she has every right to be maintain a robust position.

[alex_b]

Your friend might want to read her company handbook to ensure she fully understands any company policies around disciplinary processes, grievances etc. Generally she will be entitled to have someone accompany her to any formal disciplinary process and also be informed of the meeting in advance.

She may also consider filing a complaint in writing setting out any discriminatory practices to protect her position in advance of any disciplinary if she thinks it?s heading that way.

In the end it really depends how she wants to play it, if she thinks they?re going to escalate then she might want to seek legal advice (I can suggest someone if your friend would like).

ACAS also has good guidance https://www.acas.org.uk/

[Sue]

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/sex-discrimination#:~:text=The%20Equality%20Act%202010%20says,known%20as%20discrimination%20by%20association)

Did your friend ask the CEO what "the full picture" was that he told her she didn't know?

[Sue]

This place has an advice line.

I don't know if it advises individuals, but if not it may be able to point your friend in the direction of somewhere who does?

https://www.equalityadvisoryservice.com/

Alternatively, apart from ACAS, the Citizens Advice Bureau would probably be able to help?

Oh sorry, I see you already mentioned that.

[Chick]

How long has she worked there? Is it more than two years?

[Seabag]

?perhaps I should get a man to say it to you and then you would listen?. She said this, because this seemed to be the case previously and she was feeling brave. She was trying to stick up for herself for once but didn?t consider the repercussions. The CEO asked if she was accusing him of being sexist and for another example if that was the case. She pointed out a recent recruitment drive where he asked her not to show him anymore women?s cvs. He said she didn?t know the full picture.?

Her comment was provocative, and it could have been put differently. But it?s also not terrible, we all do thing that in hindsight we know we could do differently, but the message it conveyed is right. However, as she?s found she?s got a situation where the lid?s been lifted so it?s going to need to be dealt with, and her employer knows this too. So for both of them the comments have thrown up issues that seem to have been bubbling away underneath for some time.

Both parties would be advised to get around a table and thrash it out. But she?s going to have to be brave. Plus she?d be advised to take some professional advice on the matter.

Ultimately it?s never going to be as it was before, but it wasn?t actually great anyway, so push on and first thing I?d ask verbally and then in writing would be ?so please explain the position? re the last comment about not knowing the full picture. I?m getting the feeling her boss knows it?s not right in the real light if day, and he?s got things to explain which are contentious. Again we don?t know the facts, maybe there we?re already a disproportionate number of women's cv and he wanted balance, though he could easily have told her that and gained a better position on the situation.

But let?s be clear, she?s better off looking to get out of the place, but she?ll need to get advice if she?s going to get anything out of it. I?m also not saying she?s right or wrong, same for her employer. Details make the case in such matters.

I?d go and see an employment lawyer if I was her.

[Angelina]

Does she want to work there?

or does she just need a job?

saying she's not being listened to because she's a woman is very different to saying 'let's understand each others views'. It is basically accusing him of being sexist and he is right to ask if that is what she was inferring.

Presumably they value her opinion anyway or she wouldn't be working there?

It's fine to disagree on things - but how it is dealt with is important.

Your friend clearly feels sexism is an issue so should list out the instances and examples - you can't just say it without reason.

they should then have a healthy discussion about it and the CEO can also put their views across and see where they land.

As for the comment about CVS - we don't know enough - maybe all of the cvs your friend had put forward were women and he wanted a balance? Maybe CVs could be anonymous from now on.

[Sue]

Yes. Amazing what happens when name, age, address and any other personal information which could lead to unfair discrimination is removed from applications and CVs before the people making the recruitment decisions see them.

[Waseley]

Two words

Trade

Union.

[Chick]

I have already offered my service as a TU rep.

[TheCat]

Given a number of people have made the point that this is only one side of the story...it's notable that most commenters seem to have assumed that this discussion the bosses want to have with her 'in due course' is to take her to task over her comment....

Just a thought, but perhaps on reflection they were shocked and disappointed in themselves and want to address any concerns she might have regarding sexism in the workplace...perhaps they want a little time to make sure they approach that meeting in the best conciliatory/constructive manner...they perhaps want to make clear they want to improve the company culture.

Anyway...perhaps that's wishful thinking..but it would seem a very stupid thing to do in today's climate for any sensible business owner to respond to an accusation of sexism by sacking or in some way making life difficult for the compplainant (but of course I know it does happen)....anyway...just a thought...but perhaps everyone might come out of the initial confrontation with a better outlook and improved work environment. Disagreements can sometimes result in self-reflection, and have positive outcomes as they get people talking....

[yeknomyeknom]

Thank you for all your replies (yes she has worked there more than 2yrs). It?s good to read some other opinions on the matter. Everything said so far seems rational and well considered, here is hoping this will apply to this employer in the end also. Fingers crossed.

[j.a.]

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Given a number of people have made the point that

> this is only one side of the story...it's notable

> that most commenters seem to have assumed that

> this discussion the bosses want to have with her

> 'in due course' is to take her to task over her

> comment....

>

> Just a thought, but perhaps on reflection they

> were shocked and disappointed in themselves and

> want to address any concerns she might have

> regarding sexism in the workplace...perhaps they

> want a little time to make sure they approach that

> meeting in the best conciliatory/constructive

> manner...they perhaps want to make clear they want

> to improve the company culture.

>

> Anyway...perhaps that's wishful thinking..but it

> would seem a very stupid thing to do in today's

> climate for any sensible business owner to respond

> to an accusation of sexism by sacking or in some

> way making life difficult for the compplainant

> (but of course I know it does

> happen)....anyway...just a thought...but perhaps

> everyone might come out of the initial

> confrontation with a better outlook and improved

> work environment. Disagreements can sometimes

> result in self-reflection, and have positive

> outcomes as they get people talking....

Yeeeeeah, maybe - in fact hopefully this is the case. My experience (and it?s only my experience) is that in these cases fault usually lies with management. Generally either they are actual dinosaurs (not unknown but getting rarer all the time fortunately), or they?ve mishandled the situation.

Moreover I kind of feel that the onus is on management to make sure people don?t feel this way on the first place. If you want to be in charge then it comes with the territory. Yes there are always people inclined to look for drama whom might ?wilfully misinterpret? an otherwise innocent remark but they?re few and far between.

[Seabag]

I?m MD of a company, we?ve had many employees and in my experience it?s best to have the mindset where ?if you?d like to set up a meeting to discuss your concerns? is in place, it?s a good way to filter out the real concerns, vs the spur of the moment comments. And a brief schedule of ?things to discuss? from both parties too.

It?s a bloody minefield tho, I?m glad we?ve got our team down to a manageable size where it?s business first. We got the the point where we had a HR manager, it was painful.

But two ears one mouth, listening relative to talking ratio is good too.

?I hear your concerns and comments, let me come back to you?

[Seabag]

Last thing on all of this

If you?re a small business, join the FSB. They have been the most useful organisation I?ve come across. We?ve had a number of ex employees trying it on.

They even send you letters you fill out to then send out, to deal with awkward employee situations.

https://www.fsb.org.uk/join-us.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiArt6PBhCoARIsAMF5waiGLMlLVdnOFx3qhxgJHjZhLppEVEdM7evHTvLjpv7Adf8yXbdkZ3IaAmrmEALw_wcB