South Circular closed just after the Grove

[ruffers]

As the title says South Circular closed for I believe two or three days according to hi vis fellah just after the Grove near the stables.

No idea where they're going to divert traffic and not many options thanks to LTN I suppose.

Good luck everyone.

[jazzer]

It's Thames water, need we say more;

Info taken from the TfL website which I hope will be helpful.

Routes: P4

DULWICH COMMON, Dulwich: Route P4 is on diversion in both directions due to emergency Thames Water works. Buses are diverted via Lordship Lane and East Dulwich Grove, missing stops from Lordship Lane Estate to Dulwich Village School (VH and VU)

Routes: P13

DULWICH COMMON, Dulwich: Route P13 is on diversion in both directions due to emergency Thames Water works. Buses are diverted via Lordship Lane, East Dulwich Grove and Dulwich Village, missing stops from Grove Tavern (MA) to Allison Grove (VN) towards Streatham and from Dulwich Park / Queen Mary's Gate (VM) to Lordship Lane Estate towards New Cross.

[ed26]

Rather bizarre and unnecessary tweet (see image), I thought. Started well with good info, then an extremely patronising plug for walking and cycling (duh, do you think I'd be sitting here in my car if walking was an option?) and then a thoroughly bizarre "not our problem mate" bit at the end.

OK, Thames Water messes up again - not sure if this is still the old Victorian water mains, or a poor replacement or repair. But it isn't Thames Water's fault that half of East Dulwich and Dulwich Village are almost inaccessible when a single pinch point is closed. Surely the Council should take some responsibility for getting the traffic moving again over the next week, instead of forcing local drivers to trundle all the way up to Herne Hill and back? They should be able to suspend the bus gates and open the streets blocked by flower pots in cases like this.

[Bic Basher]

Why doesn't it surprise me that one of the pro-LTN councillors is passing the buck to Thames Water instead of proactively re-opening Court Lane for the duration of the works?

[roywj]

East Dulwich Grove full of traffic including all of the diverted buses and cars. Extremely busy during normal times and now is regulary used for diversions whenever there is an issue or a road closure in the Dulwich area.

Poor air quality, noise etc for the residents and schools on East Dulwich Grove but the council doesn't care.

[first mate]

Leeming's helpful comment stating that we should all 'remember' Thames Water are to blame, not the Council, is pathetic.

Aren't the Council meant to liaise with utility companies to manage situations? It does not invite confidence in this council to be concerned about managing anything, other than their own political careers.

[Nigello]

If it?s emergency works maybe there?s no way the council can intervene. I?m not sure so if someone knows the rules please tell us so we know the facts.

[SpringTime]

Does anyone know why the traffic northbound on Lordship Lane and westbound on East Dulwich Road is so dreadful today? also southbound on Grove Vale. Appalling. Supposing it's a problem at/near the Goose Green roundabout. Just stinks of fumes...

[KidKruger]

Yeah LL is carnage, also CP Rd was ridiculous.

Possibly due to Dulwich Common (A205) traffic rerouting ?

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Bic Basher Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Why doesn't it surprise me that one of the pro-LTN

> councillors is passing the buck to Thames Water

> instead of proactively re-opening Court Lane for

> the duration of the works?

Why not reopen the old road through Dulwich Park for that matter?

[mrwb]

Is our national or local government worse?

That is a tough call!

[heartblock]

The road system needs flexibility - this is why LTNs are the most dumb way of trying to resolve car use, congestion and pollution. I'm working from home today and looking out my window I hope no one needs access to any urgent aid from paramedics or any other emergency service in this area. I also hope that the Charter School abandons using the sports area next to the road.

[Artemis]

first mate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Leeming's helpful comment stating that we should

> all 'remember' Thames Water are to blame, not the

> Council, is pathetic.

>

> Aren't the Council meant to liaise with utility

> companies to manage situations? It does not invite

> confidence in this council to be concerned about

> managing anything, other than their own political

> careers.

The issues on Croxted Road have been blamed variously on LB Lambeth and on TFL by councillors. Never Southwark Council?s fault. It?s like dumping some manure in your neighbour?s garden and complaining about the smell. The ?accountability? Nolan principle doesn?t seem to register.

[heartblock]

Hopefully he will be voted out in May...even as a Labour supporter I would hold my nose and vote him out. Oh well as long as my neighbours on Calton, Court and Melbourne are ok - that is all that matters - I'm sure the counters on ED Grove will register no traffic Northbound as all this traffic will disappear down the magic hole..

[ab29]

I also hope they will be voted out. The closed roads must be reopened.

Things like burst pipes or car accidents happen and every time those living on the roads where displaced by the LTN traffic goes are hit double.

[richard tudor]

If memory serves me correct was Dulwich Common not closed a short while ago that caused chaos.

Why has Southwark Council not got a standby plan knowing the result from this incident that could have been implemented

Perhaps their plan is to cause as much chaos as possible to bring in yet more plans to get rid of cars.

[Nigello]

If it is emergency work, the utilities can do as they please but need to inform the council soonest:

https://www.gov.uk/street-works-licence-england-scotland-wales

I have no idea of the circumstances that are linked to today's situation.

[Rockets]

I think it is the same main that keeps going. The traffic is horrendous and will be for as long as the work continues.

For Cllr Leeming to play the blame game is very reflective of his approach to most things #itstheirfault. Granted the council can't do anything about a main bursting but their closure of roads makes the problems far far worse when this happens (and it happens a lot and will continue to happen a lot).

[Nigello]

He is saying it is to do with another body, not the council - you can call it blaming if you are really not a fan of his for other reasons but another person who has no involvement with the LTN etc. would read it as someone spelling out a fact rather than deflecting. The council comes in for a lot of flack, sometimes unwarranted, so if it is pretty rational for him to say "not me". I think any councillor would do this.

[heartblock]

The whole point of having a Council and leadership is so that unexpected events and planned procedures can be acted on in a Borough wide process. Hence flood planning, planning for health emergencies, making sure that emergency vehicles have access. A councillor saying it's nothing do with him is ridiculous - of course planning for events such as burst water-mains and traffic easing is part of a Councillors remit.

[Nigello]

Ok, you don;t like him, we get it. But if you have two hours notice and you don't have a magic wand or extra roadspace waht do you suggest is done? This is about an unexpected event at a hitherto unknown location. Can a council have a plan for every location? I doubt it. Sometimes, it is just bad luck.

[Artemis]

Nigello Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Ok, you don;t like him, we get it. But if you have

> two hours notice and you don't have a magic wand

> or extra roadspace waht do you suggest is done?

> This is about an unexpected event at a hitherto

> unknown location. Can a council have a plan for

> every location? I doubt it. Sometimes, it is just

> bad luck.

I think it?s not unreasonable to expect that before putting in road measures that put a strain on roads regardless of any (very foreseeable) issues, you would think about what would happen when such issues occur and consider whether your road measures are sensible. That?s a policy decision and made by LB Southwark. However, I think it?s fair to hold the view that having councillors immediately go ?it wasn?t me, not my fault!? doesn?t help the situation - at least the council might acknowledge that their closing/limiting access to roads could have a knock on effect when issues occur, rather than their immediate reaction being to distance themselves from the problems. It would be good to have elected representatives? immediate reaction being ?Something has gone wrong, we can put in the mitigation procedures we planned for?. But then they haven?t put in any mitigation plans (eg suspending road measures in case of emergency).

[ed26]

Yes, it is bad luck for a few hours while alternative measures can be considered. But you can't close a load of secondary roads permanently and then have no plans to get traffic moving again when one of the primary routes is blocked. I'm not saying that Court Road or Dulwich Village should be the signposted diversion, but a soft reopening so that locals can go about their business would be an easy option. That can be achieved quickly and easily with a few temporary signs (or just bin bags over the signs like when the residents' parking was suspended for a while) and a few posts on Southwark's website / twitter. Word would soon get around to local residents. It doesn't have to be a perfect solution but every local car relieved from the gridlock makes it easier for the through traffic and the residents of Croxted Road, East Dulwich Grove, etc.

But my initial problem with the tweet wasn't the LTN itself but the "it's not our responsibility" approach when it is absolutely the Council's responsibility to try to keep local traffic moving, regardless of the cause of the problem.

[first mate]

A more grownup response would offer reassurance that collective efforts being made to solve issue, not 'remember it is not our responsibility'.

[ed26]

But are collective efforts being made? If this chap is a Councillor, then he is implying that it's not the Council's responsibility and that no effort will be made to improve things. If the Council will in fact step up, then he's just spreading misinformation.