The old Mag Pub on Lordship Lane (The Patch)

[ryedalema]

I think wait a week and all will become clear - obviously there's some internal unravelling/negotiating going on and I'm happy to watch from afar in the hope that it all sorts itself out (as long as it doesn't take too long!). As Cora said there's no harm in pledging cos you don't pay unless Patch is/are successful - and I'm particularly interested in both the science of their urban kitchen garden and the community outreach work being thought through. Would love my kids to better understand where their food comes from and get more involved in how it gets from garden/smoke house/dairy/field etc to plate :)

[Dulwich Squirrel]

We live very near The Mag and it has always been a quiet establishment. Tonight however they are playing bad 80's music very loudly - and it's pretty annoying! Does anyone know if this will continue?

[Sue]

It was their opening party. They had a DJ.

The Mag now has a large fruit machine and a telly over the bar.

There was no food because the chef didn't turn up.

There were a few people dancing at one point then the place emptied. But we were there early and left about 9 to eat elsewhere.

Lovely friendly bar staff but otherwise a strange evening. And apparently it wasn't their opening night as it has been open since Tuesday.

On another topic , I was looking again at what the Patch people are saying

I can't understand the talk of an independent community owned pub. How can it be independent when it'stied to Enterprise Inns and how can it be owned when it's leased?

[PandG]

Sue read the information the 'Patch' people have published, the community are being asked to support the veggies they are hoping to grow on site using hydroponics- they say they have all the funding for the pub lease itself - it's not another Ivy House! Maybe Ryedelema, post above, has the right idea - lets see what happens!

[Sue]

I have read it.

It says the Patch will be fully independent

Then it says it will be owned by the local community

It appears to be talking about the whole gastropub, not solely the food production side of things.

.

How would you interpret it? It is right at the start of the article on the kickstart site

The Patch can clearly not be Ilike the Ivy House, but it appears to be talking as if it is.

[alice]

patch pitched

patch ditched

arise mags

[PandG]

So If you want 80's disco music and a fruit Machine get on with it!

[UncleBen]

Methinks Sues only interest in this, and other pubs is to propagate folkie nights.

[Sue]

UncleBen Wrote:

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> Methinks Sues only interest in this, and other

> pubs is to propagate folkie nights.

Xxxxxx

What are you talking about?

We moved our Folk nights from the Mag months ago and have no intention of moving them back there.

What has that got to do with anything on this thread???

I visit many pubs locally which have no connection whatever to putting on music there. What a very strange thing to say!

[Rianoo]

Walked past tonight. Cursory glance 't bonus pot on't slot machine. Not big enough yet.

[BrandNewGuy]

Update email from The Patch:

"Happy Easter everyone,

Scheduled to sign lease this week! Which will mean that the temporary tenants that are in will leave quite quickly after that... This is a good time to really spread the word and get people onto kickstarter and start pledging!

Thanks from The Patch team!"

[Sue]

Thanks BNG - I await developments with interest.

Still don't understand the references on kickstarter to community ownership (of the whole pub) and being independent though - can somebody explain who knows about these things?

[murt]

BNG

If someone pledges money, would they then have a stake in the business, assuming the Kickstarter target is reached?

Andy

[BrandNewGuy]

Andy, you'd need to check on Kickstarter for that - I'm just passing on the update I was sent.

[PandG]

As BNG (welcome!) has said all the info on the Patch plans is on Kickstarter in writing and on the video Sue and Andy - you pledge money for the ?17k that is going to be community food grown at the back of the pub - the lease of the pub will be owned, it seems, by Arnold and his team who have all the money in place to buy the lease they said, which they hope to sign this week.

Also it says that if you pledge money towards this ?17k it will only be taken up once they hit their target and proceed

- I suggest those of you in ED that want to support local business (William Rose are in this it seems too)and a boost to the Mag - which is long overdue and a brilliant venue - pledge!

PandG

[Sue]

PandG, what I am querying is the wording on the Kickstarter site, as I said before

I am clear what the actual situation is but I cannot understand how a lease tied to Enterprise Inns can be described as an INDEPENDENT venture

.

Also buying a lease is not at all the same as owning the pub.

There now appear to be at least five threads on here about the Mag/Patch

[PandG]

Sue just google leasehold!

[Sue]

PandG Wrote:

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> She just google leasehold!

Xxxxx

I know what leasehold means.

I also know what independent means.

I also know that the pub will remain owned by Enterprise Inns and that there will therefore be restrictions on the leaseholder

What I STILL don't understand, and you have not yet explained, is how these things can somehow co-exist.

Leased or owned?

Independent or tied to Enterprise Inns?

It can't be both.

[MissWiggy]

Hi Sue,

I get the impression (perhaps wrongly) that you have concerns with Arnold's plans for The Mag. It's probably very difficult for individuals trying to establish a new business, to buy outright the freehold of a pub. Perhaps the people most likely / in the best position to do this, are going to be large breweries who are the opposite of independent.

It might therefore seem that the closest alternative is an individual who can purchase the lease and essentially run the pub in the manner they choose whilst honouring their contract. I think that Arnold's plan appears to be a very happy solution to this issue.

Given your concerns do you have any other proposals as to how the site could be used in order to ensure a community focused pub with its own character and USP? I for one am rather pleased that this thread isn't at least discussing whether the site could be turned into M&S or Waitrose!

They seem to recognise that we will all have some questions that need answering and another post suggests we direct them to their Facebook page:

www.facebook.com/dulwichpatch

[Sue]

Miss Wiggy, I have no objections at all to the plans for the pub and I will be delighted if it all works out.

It would be a great addition to the area and certainly better than football, a fruit machine and (imo) a pretty rubbish DJ playing pretty dire music.

What I am querying is what on the face of it appears to be a degree of misrepresentation in some of the information being provided.

I have tried to explain why.

[Rianoo]

.

[Rianoo]

Ideally if they are purchasing the lease for x no. of years they should steer clear of stock purchasing options. If they do then they can be independent in the fact they have no restrictions on what produce/stock they sell - that is as about as indepedent as it will get. I am guessing the accounts don't paint a great picture so they may try to get away with stock purchasing but companies like Punch Taverns "plc" and Enterprise Inns "plc" would, I assume, tell you where you go - it wouldn't sit well with the shareholders. If they are lucky enough to negotiate no stock purchasing then I also assume the rent/lease cost would reflect that - it is part of a much larger business portfolio after all and they will want bang for the buck. Excuse the phrase.

[standswithfist]

As MissWiggy said - They seem to recognise that we will all have some questions that need answering and another post suggests we direct them to their Facebook page:

www.facebook.com/dulwichpatch

why not go on their FB page as requested to ask any questions?

[Sue]

When I last looked their Facebook page had no additional information to what is already on here.

As they are using this forum and started several new threads over the weekend, why can they not respond to queries on here?

I use Facebook very little and don't particularly want to have to use it to glean information about a local venture which is being heavily pushed on here.

[Jeremy]

Let's be honest, "heavily pushed" is an exaggeration. Yes there have been some duplicate threads, but "nonold" appears to have made a grand total of 7 posts. So expecting a response to individual queries on this forum is probably a bit optimistic.

Yes, he'll be contracted to buy draft beer from Enterprise. But if he has autonomy in all other aspects, then I don't see the problem with the "independent" tag (especially as he's clearly more interested in the food side of things).